I understand.

From a marketing perspective, Kinsale doesn't spend a lot of money on entertainment, conventions, broker outings, and so on. No large golf outings for the heads of presidents and companies. They are quite frugal in that aspect. That's one of the reasons why their expense ratio is so good.

Yes.

Michael Kehoe (Kinsale) has been particularly effective with small business casualty and property accounts. These smaller accounts often have an average premium of around $12,000. An associate underwriter can quote these because the system creates a framework within which they can either approve or reject them.

That makes sense. Before I move on to other questions, I want to go back to the IT "box" concept you mentioned. I've heard about it from them and others. From your perspective, why is it so unique? Why can't other companies like Arch, Berkeley, Markel, or Travelers create that box? Why aren't they competing with Kinsale on this front? Or are they?

Yes, but the majority of the companies that Kinsale competes with are so old that they might have five or six different computer systems that aren't linked together.