Disclaimer: This interview is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. In Practise is an independent publisher and all opinions expressed by guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of In Practise.

{audio:0:03:51} Could you start by telling us a little bit more about your practice and what type and size of clients you work with?

{audio:0:04:00} I previously worked at a digital marketing agency, out here in New York, on Long Island. As things go, I just couldn’t get my ideas through, so I started out on my own, and I joined the Wix Partner Program. I worked at the agency for about two and a half years and then I broke off and I’ve been doing this for about a year now. I’ve had experience with Wix and a few other editors as well, including Webflow, Shopify, a bit of WordPress.

{audio:0:04:55} Right now, I mainly work as a Wix Partner. That means I’m pretty much inside of Wix, every day, all day long, working with different businesses that range from solo entrepreneurs, to teams of 75 people in an engineering or accounting company. On a day-to-day basis, I do what I call digital marketing management. I work with these businesses, hand in hand, on a daily or weekly basis, depending on how involved they want me to be, to help their website grow in search engines, or simply just create and maintain updates within their website, maybe adding some new features here and there. I’ve moved to a more management position.

{audio:0:06:04} Just to clarify, you worked at an agency and you’ve been doing your own thing for a year now. What was the difference between the roles?

{audio:0:06:14} Honestly, the only difference is that at one, I was working inside a company and ran the Wix side of things. I wound up breaking off and starting my own company, doing the same exact thing, for the most part.

{audio:0:06:32} What website building tools do you use now?

{audio:0:06:54} My work now, really over the last year, has really only been within Wix. A lot of that work is moving people from other platforms, to Wix, for a range of reasons, depending on their business and their needs. I am still often in the other platforms, moving people from Shopify or Squarespace to Wix. I still see those editors and some of the updates that are there; I’m just not actively working in them and just transferring information out of them.

{audio:0:07:34} I would have to say, the top three are definitely Wix, Squarespace and Shopify. 

{audio:0:07:42} How has the Wix offering evolved within the last four years, in your view?

{audio:0:07:54} Firstly, Wix has certainly grown, by size of their internal teams. What that has done has allowed for a much easier streamlined communication between Partners, like myself, or customers directly. Their support teams have grown tremendously, and they are continuing to do so. It is really nice when, if you have an issue with your website, that you can simply call up and, usually, within about 10 minutes, you will get a phone call back from somebody who knows what they are talking about and they will be able to help you directly.

{audio:0:08:46} That has helped people like me, enormously, where I might just need some quick help for a client. But it’s also helped the customer because it’s allowing them to be able to fix those issues and keep them from moving away from Wix to other platforms. When they run into an issue, the first thing a lot of people think is, I need to switch the platform; it’s not working for me. That is the biggest thing and, honestly, most of the time, that is not the case, it’s just that they aren’t implementing properly whatever they are doing.

{audio:0:09:15} I think the biggest thing that I have seen over the four years that I’ve really been hands on with Wix – because I do have experience before that, as well – is that the internal support has grown significantly, along with their marketing teams. I think a lot of their internal marketing teams have grown but they have also been able to write a lot of content that helps Wix users, again, to keep them on the platform, jumping on that content marketing perspective. Often, the information that they are writing is really good and useful, helping people like me, helping their clients. Making that information available has been a great help.

{audio:0:10:10} Overall, with any editor like this, you see the design changes over time, as well as the UI changes. There are different things that they are adding, here and there, to make things easier, faster and more available. The biggest point that I wanted to hit with this question was the transformation from being just a website builder to more of an online business manager. That has been the underlying push in Wix’s ecosystem. You can now have phone plans for calls and texts; you have a whole email system; you have an entire CRM built right in.

{audio:0:11:00} What’s really unique about that is that it comes directly with your website plan. Unlike any other platform, you have a CRM built in, to manage your clients. It is unique, because it is tied directly to your website and it streamlines things, especially for those small businesses that are looking to get started and get a website up. If they have people coming through their doors, everything is now managed in one spot, on one platform.

{audio:0:11:34} It sounds as if you have used many different tools in the past? You mentioned Webflow and Shopify and you decided to consolidate with Wix. Can you explain a bit about the rationale of that decision and what led you to do that?

{audio:0:11:45} The biggest thing with Wix, and the reason why I stuck with them is, when I’m talking to these small and medium-sized businesses, throughout the country – here in the United States, I mainly work with US and Canada-based clients – they need something that is quick, effective, that will last and, generally, doesn’t need too much maintenance. I’ve found that Wix is, by far, the best platform in those areas. 

{audio:0:12:28} I’m in a lot of Facebook groups and I have a whole folder that I save of posts of people talking about WordPress. They had a site built, they paid all this money – 15,000 to build a website – 10 years ago, and it’s just nothing but problems. Every month, this plugin is not working, this company got bought out and now you have to transfer this. There is just too much going on. If you want to implement a form system that connects to your CRM, you have to add this plugin. It just winds up being so much that you need an entire team to manage it and that becomes extremely costly. 

{audio:0:13:06} I’ve found that a lot of the small and medium-sized businesses that either don’t want to, or don’t have the budget, to dedicate towards something like that, their best option is Wix. Whether they know that or not, is another thing. When it is set up correctly, I think, absolutely, their best option is Wix.

{audio:0:13:33} With the product improvement, it has moved more towards being a CRM, but how about the core website building? If you think about Wix, five years ago, before Editor X and before what was called Corvid and Velo, it was a drag and drop product and it was unsuited to many use cases. How has that changed?

{audio:0:14:08} Both Editor X and Velo, combined, is a tremendous update and I don’t think the true visible potential for that is yet there, at least for the majority of people. I work within Wix, I work with all these businesses and I see the different kinds of people that are using the platform. I see how Editor X and Velo is the ultimate duo for a lot of their needs. 

{audio:0:14:51} The issue that I think is there – and this applies to implementing any new product – is the lack of knowledge of how to use it. Any kind of small business owner, if they are to go and fire up a website within Wix and they choose Editor X, I don’t think I’ve seen one person that has actually created a fully-functioning, ready-to-go website by themselves. The learning curve is pretty substantial, especially compared to the classic editor, moving away from that drag and drop. 

{audio:0:15:32} What a lot of people will do is go in and make a website that looks great, on their screen. They don’t realize that Editor X is a platform that scales; that’s the whole point. There are no gridlines. They will sit there and, for three months, they will build a site on their computer, in their laptop resolution. They then send it to their friends and say, what do you think, and they can’t see anything because they didn’t attach any anchors or all those things you have to do to keep everything in one spot. 

{audio:0:16:09} Over time, I see Editor X becoming more and more popular, as people start to realize, firstly, the capability and, secondly, get a full understanding of how to use it. At the agency I was working at, we started using Editor X when it was still in the beta version. We were testing out different things and, obviously, it wasn’t the published product so there were a lot of issues that we had, but we could see that the potential was there. The editor is super cool; it’s definitely unique and will provide a different-looking website for clients, without a doubt.

{audio:0:16:46} If you pair that with Velo, and the option to be able to just drop in whatever code you want and change around anything, it changes the game. Not even that, but at the top of the editor, you can toggle on a switch, change around the code – say you want to add something that you found on GitHub and you want to drop it in – turn it on, drop it in where you need it, turn it off and you don’t have to worry about it. That is an entry point for a lot of people, like myself. I don’t know how to code; it’s not really my skillset. But I have flipped on that switch, dropped in some different code that I’ve got from other places, or spoken to people who are coding for Editor X websites and they are making that information public, and it’s very simple for me to take that stuff, drop it in and pass it off to a client. You can flip it on, use it, turn it off and you’re good to go.

{audio:0:18:00} When you think about the use cases that can be tackled with this combo of Editor X, Wix and Velo, what cases do you think are well-suited for this solution and what cases are still maybe too complex or just that the Wix platform can’t quite handle them yet?

{audio:0:18:22} It’s almost as if I don’t fully understand the potential and that’s just simply because there is so much potential there. For me, the idea is that you can go in there and, basically, do whatever you want. As long as you know how to code and know what you are doing, you can implement whatever you want. I would say it’s hard to put a limit on, this is what it’s good for and this is what it’s not good for. I think, if you have the right team and the right people, that know what they’re doing, you could really implement whatever you are looking to do. It takes things to a whole other level when you have the people that know what they are doing in that space.

{audio:0:19:23} Do you mostly use Editor X or do you use the basic Wix for some more simple cases?

{audio:0:19:31} As Editor X progresses, I think more and more people are becoming interested in it. Wix is marketing Editor X as their main editor now. From what I can see, there is a lot of Editor X content out there. I have to say, over time, even in the last two or three months, I have had more and more projects within Editor X. Using an example of an engineering company that I am working with, they have 1,200 pages on their website and they are constantly adding more stuff. To transfer a site like that, from the classic editor to Editor X is a huge feat, as you need to ensure everything is going to be set up properly; it could take quite a long time to implement. You have those massive websites that are built out in the classic editor and it is going to be a lot more challenging to transfer from the classic editor to Editor X. 

{audio:0:20:37} But I can say the majority of the sites that I have built, in the last few months, have now been on Editor X.

{audio:0:20:45} Do you ever pass these websites back to the client, to maintain and update, or do they always use you for that?

{audio:0:20:57} When it comes to Editor X sites, a lot of the time, when those updates follow my project – at least if it’s not going to be an ongoing one – they generally will come back. Maybe they will try implementing something themselves and realize they changed the spacing, changed a gap or they removed an anchor. Now, all of a sudden, the whole page is messed up. I get that email, at midnight, asking for help. That’s definitely an issue I’m seeing more and more.

{audio:0:21:42} If you build it on X, then the client needs to use it on X?

{audio:0:21:48} Yes. You could take a classic site and transform it into an Editor X site, but you can’t go back. 

{audio:0:22:00} There are still a lot of people building on WordPress and, at your previous agency, I assume that was used? What are the use cases for WordPress?

{audio:0:22:18} I think it’s going to vary, depending on the industry itself and, again, the needs of the business for the kind of website they want to build. I like to say that WordPress is going to be better if you are prepared to have a team that actively manage that site. They will be able to change anything, as you need it. The biggest thing is, you need to have the budget to sustain that and it is extremely expensive.

{audio:0:22:55} The overall feeling I have about WordPress is that you can have a completely customized site. You can do whatever you want with it, but you need to make sure you have the right team available to make that happen and maintain it. The biggest difference I see with WordPress and Wix is, once you get your Wix website set up and everything is working and functioning properly, it will stay like that for as long as you are subscribed to that hosting plan. Nothing is going to change; all the updates either just work or you have to update it manually and they will let you know the steps you need to take to change it. It won’t just happen automatically, like a lot of the problems when working in the agency.

{audio:0:23:42} What you are saying is, you would only go through the hassle of using WordPress – which is more expensive and troublesome to maintain – if you are getting something out of it? My question is, what are you getting out of it that you can’t get with Wix?

{audio:0:24:09} At this point, at least with the businesses that I’ve worked with and the projects that I’ve worked on, I have never run into an issue where you think, only WordPress can do this. I don’t just want to be that guy that says, there is no reason; I’m sure there is. But just personally, with my experience, I have not had an issue with Wix where I’ve had to say, we can’t do that and we need to build a custom WordPress website.

{audio:0:24:46} There are always workarounds; there are always different implementations that we can use or third-party tools that we can bring in. Yes, I understand that that is getting into relying on third-party tools, but just being able to simply add an app, within the Wix Marketplace, to add some kind of booking feature that you need or add a scheduling feature is just a lot simpler, with it all being on one platform, as opposed to having to go out and find plugins and implement them and have them all connected to your internal CRM.

{audio:0:25:35} Just to get a sense, what is the most complex website you have built, just to see how far you have pushed Editor X?

{audio:0:25:42} The most complex website that I have built was probably not in Editor X; it was in the classic editor. It was a lot of different pages being locked for specific members. For Editor X, the biggest difference, overall, is the visual differences; it’s the design of the actual website and the spacing, the gaps, the scaling. Behind the scenes, all the difference sections, apps and plugins function in the exact same way that they do on the classic editor. In that sense, I think it is on a per project basis, depending on the business. Most of the time, the Editor X sites are, basically, just informational websites with some cool designs. That is what Editor X is really there for; the customizability to scale, depending on screen size, resolution and things like that.

{audio:0:26:54} The other big thing with Editor X is the customizability within the mobile editor; that has changed tremendously. There is certainly way more customization that is available in the mobile editor and with nearly half of all visitors on websites coming on mobile devices, I think it’s extremely important. I think that is what is pushing the biggest move to Editor X. People are realizing that the Wix classic editor doesn’t have great functionality or customization in the mobile editor where, in Editor X, the possibilities are nearly endless.

{audio:0:27:38} How would you compare Wix versus Webflow?

{audio:0:27:42} At the agency I worked at, we started to build some Webflow websites, towards the end of my time there. The biggest thing with Webflow is, again, the learning curve. It’s a lot like opening up an Adobe editor, like Premiere Pro or Photoshop. It looks very similar and a lot of the tools have similar icons. Somebody coming from a platform like that may be able to pick it up a lot faster. I did have some experience and I was able to say, okay, this makes sense; we can change this and we can align this here. 

{audio:0:28:26} But the biggest thing that I saw with Webflow, early on, was the different apps that Wix has, that are easily and readily available – like bookings or scheduling – were not as readily available in Webflow. That makes it really hard to build a functional website, when they are not right there, for you to drop right in, add, customize and publish. 

{audio:0:28:57} I think the design aspect of Webflow was really cool. There is definitely a lot of customization that can go into it; probably even more than Editor X, as of now. But the learning curve was certainly an issue. Even for somebody like me, who has worked on websites, getting into the editor and learning how they set it up and, this is how the pages look, this is how we can navigate here and there. 

{audio:0:29:24} Actually, we ran into a big issue with Webflow because some of the customization behind some of the SEO on the site, was not configured. When you fire up a Wix website, they do it automatically for you. It wasn’t done for Webflow and we didn’t realize it. After about three months of having our new site, we put all this time and work into it, we’re wondering why we are getting absolutely no traffic. It wasn’t as if we could really get onto the support team; that was another issue. There wasn’t somebody we could call up and say, hey, what’s going on here? It was through Facebook groups and forums, where we learnt what we needed to check. That takes a long time. It took us a week just to figure out what the heck is going on here. We knew it was a new site and it was going to take some time, but to have virtually no traffic was just off.

{audio:0:30:35} How responsive has Wix been to your feedback? 

{audio:0:30:43} It may be a little bit different, coming from my perspective, as a Partner of Wix but I should say, their response to my feedback has been absolutely tremendous. They will often come and ask me – and I’m sure, some of the other Partners, as well – what we think, how Editor X has been implemented, what are some of the pain points that we see using it. I’ve had multiple phone calls, similar to this, with internal teams, in Editor X, talking about some of the different aspects, functionality and design of the editor. Do you like how this looks? Do you think this is easy to use, the way this is positioned? From a customer perspective and not from a web designer perspective, how does this look to you? What do you find clients saying? 

{audio:0:31:38} I’ve had plenty of those conversations with them and I think they really do value feedback both from people like myself, but also from customers. They are actively doing it. They are out, all the time. I get emails, probably once a month, asking to set up a call. Again, I think that goes hand in hand with the fact that their teams are growing massively, month to month, and they seem to just continue to expand. I get all the notifications about job openings and new offices. Having that flexibility, to be able to hire those people, they can really implement a lot of the research that they are doing. 

{audio:0:32:29} That was my next question. Do you feel as if your suggestions are taken into account? Gathering suggestions and feedback is one thing and implementing them is another.

{audio:0:32:39} Yes, I think over the time that I've been working with them, I can say that there have been some wins where everybody in the Partner community was talking about this, we wanted this, and now it's here. Then there's also been times where it's been the opposite. For example, one of the biggest things and a question I get often is, why do so many people speak like negatively about Wix and some of the other platforms and so highly of WordPress? My biggest response to that is, look at the people who are talking about WordPress as the number one platform. It's all the agencies that are charging 10,000 plus a month, to manage your website and they're spending all that money, every month, to make sure that WordPress looks like the king. 

{audio:0:33:35} Tying that back into the question about how have they implemented it, one of the biggest things that a lot of the partners have asked is, can you come up with some kind of material that explains the difference and some of the strong points of Wix over WordPress, because a lot of people have that misconception. I think it's because there's just so much money behind that narrative being pushed. If you search a basic question about why WordPress is better, the first three or four pages are all large-scale agencies, doing crazy work. 

{audio:0:34:22} That's something that's been lacking. Can we have some material to be able to pitch and show people and say, this is why Wix is a great option. It has seemed to have been an issue for a while. I see it in all the Facebook groups, and they're pretty large; a lot of them have a few hundred thousand people in it, and a lot of people talk about it, and it just seems to be one of those things that's so easy, but it just hasn't come through yet. That's definitely something that's been a pain point.

{audio:0:35:00} I guess there was that commercial with WordPress, do you remember it? There was this little commercial about kind of how WordPress was old or something; I don't remember exactly the plot.

{audio:0:35:21} Yes, I've seen some stuff about that; I actually don't think I've seen the commercial. I think more what we've been asking for is some kind of slide deck that’s not so much a commercial, but more of an information-based article or deck that could say, look, these are like the real differences, these are the real numbers, this is what's going on. A commercial is great, but I'm not going to send a potential client a commercial or something like that. I want to send them some real information when they're doing extensive research about what platform they want to use.

{audio:0:36:10} Has your business been growing? Are you satisfied with how the business has been doing?

{audio:0:36:21} Yes; I am now expanding out. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Marketplace at all? If you would like, I could go into it?

{audio:0:36:36} Yes, why don't you go into it, because I think that relates to the client referrals question?

{audio:0:36:39} Taking a step back and seeing when they implemented the Marketplace for the first time, I think it was 2019, and then our agency got it in 2020. I think it kind of flipped a switch; this makes a lot of sense. Wix needed to bridge the gap between their technical support teams and people just needing help designing a website. They can't possibly have teams that are helping people design a site; it would be too much. I think the Marketplace was a really cool feature to add because now, as Partners, we are ensuring that their customers are staying on the platform. If we get a website up and going and the client loves it, most likely they will continue to use Wix; they really won't have a reason to shift. 

{audio:0:37:50} Like I said in the beginning, I think the biggest thing that causes people to shift is they don't really know how to use the platform they're on. They just think they need something else. They start doing research and they start getting the ads and it's a slippery slope. Going back to the Marketplace, I think was a great feature. Would you like me to get into how it works?

{audio:0:38:22} We know the basics, but maybe just from your perspective how it works for you?

{audio:0:38:26} When I first left the agency, I got onto this fast-track program, within Wix, just because of the experience, to get me right into the Marketplace. There are four or five different tiers now, so I think it's on the third tier you actually get access to the Marketplace. That means you have a public profile and Wix users can either reach out to you directly through the Marketplace, or they can submit a project request and you'll actively get those leads coming through the platform. 

{audio:0:39:18} Those leads vary. You can have a very broad selection on the people that you want to work with, but a lot of times, the users just click random things, they get through and they just need help with something. At the beginning, especially when I was part of that fast-track program, everything was fantastic. It changed the shape of my business and how fast I was able to accelerate growth and bring on clients and really get in front of some real companies. Over time, I started to realize that the majority of the projects that are coming through the Marketplace are things like, we need to build a website, we need to fix a website, we just need some help with this. There are not too many people that are interested in some kind of management or SEO program, where it's a month-to-month project, where you could really build and sustain a business. Don't get me wrong; those people are there and they do come through, it's just not as often. 

{audio:0:40:24} In my personal experience, what I did at the beginning, and honestly, up until this week, I've been focusing on more of those long-term clients. I need to bring on people that I can build a relationship with and work with over time. Because of that, I was not as active in the Marketplace, turning over projects quickly. I now have learned that the algorithms are basically punishing me for that. My lead count has gone down tremendously because my completed project number has gone down, although I'm very much still active within the Marketplace and working on a day-to-day basis. I'm just passing up on those quick little projects and I'm really focusing on my clients now. I've noticed a change in the way the Marketplace has been treating my profile and so I am now working on adjustments to change that around again and just figure out how to get some really super small projects through, to get my completed number up. That way, I can continue to get more leads. 

{audio:0:41:32} The more completed projects you have within a 90-day time frame, the more leads they'll send you. At the beginning of the project, I didn't have those long-term clients – I just started my business coming from an agency – so I was able to turn over those projects super quick and I was getting three to five leads a day. Now I'm lucky if I get one, because I haven't been turning over those projects as I collected my long-term clients.

{audio:0:42:00} What proportion of your business or client base, however you want to split it, has come through this channel?

{audio:0:42:08} From my reoccurring like monthly projects, I would say it's probably about 75% Wix, right now. As things settled down, I landed some clients from the Marketplace, and was able to build some cash flow and have some capital actually come in. I started to explore other marketplaces as well; there’s one called bark.com, and I'm a partner of theirs, but it's kind of the opposite way that the marketplace works. Essentially, you get all the information about the project, up front, that the user submits, and then people like me will bid on the contact information for that person. 

{audio:0:43:00} I'll be able to see that me, from Long Island, New York, has this project, they need a new website, their budget is between $3,000 and $5,000; they are looking for an actively managed program for at least three months. You get all this information and then I can bid on it. Although it is very expensive, the projects that I've been able to acquire from that platform have been contributing to that long term month-to-month, sustainable growth, compared to the Wix Marketplace which is a lot of quick turnarounds, super small businesses that don't necessarily have a large budget to dedicate towards monthly projects or reoccurring projects.

{audio:0:43:56} I just wanted to come back to the product and just explore a bit. Clearly. Wix has worked very well for you as a product, as a tool in your business?

{audio:0:44:06} A lot of agencies are not using it, so I wonder, when you talk to your peers and other agencies, what is typically the sort of push back to your very positive experience with the product? I'm sure you talk and exchange views?

{audio:0:44:21} We have local chambers of commerce or small business development centers here in the United States. It's basically a program by the Federal Government, but essentially, it's just a group, in different local areas. There's this one agency that runs a lot of their marketing stuff, and this guy is always on there, just hammering away at Wix, really chiseling them out. Essentially, all he's doing is trying to drive all those people that are in there to his company to use WordPress. The biggest thing that I found with WordPress, especially in those situations, is okay, an agency like that that's been using WordPress for a while, they have their systems in place, they know what plugins they want to use, depending on what kind of website they're building. If it's something very simple and very small – which a lot of these businesses and these groups tend to be – they could quickly just throw in a template, change some things around and pass it off to the client and say, here you go. 

{audio:0:45:23} The biggest difference between that and Wix is that, now that program or that website is built within WordPress and the user does not have access to it. Now that agency has them. They've basically got them by the neck; they can't do anything. If they want to make any changes, literally change one word on the site, they have to go through the agency, and that agency is going to charge them for it. Tying back in to how other people put that pressure on Wix, the agencies that have been doing this for a while and know WordPress inside and out and how to keep control of the project, they're going to continue to push that platform because they know that their clients can't have access to it. They are in control the entire time. That’s one of the things I’ve noticed, especially in a lot of these local business groups. 

{audio:0:46:22} Again, these people just have no idea what they're talking about. This agency, in particular, that I'm talking about, they don't use Wix, and so this guy will go and preach in these meetings and things like that, all these things that are just completely false. Clearly, the guy has not been in the platform in the last two or three years, to see all the changes and the things that have come to fruition within the editor. I would venture to say that he probably has no idea how to use Editor X or Velo or anything like that. It's tough to work with those people and you constantly have people in that authority position, preaching those things, and then trying to explain that and break it down. A lot of times when I can get on the phone call and discuss with somebody and say, look, this is how it works, this is what they're doing, and that's why they keep pushing this narrative, it all starts to click. 

{audio:0:47:22} A lot of the time, when I do build a website, my clients are watching the changes live, for the most part. I ask them not to touch the site as I'm working on it, but they can see it. They see what's going on, they know what's happening, and at the end I say, look, once everything is settled up, you can do what you want. If you want to make changes, when we agree that the site is done and it's ready to go, don't make a change and come back to me and tell me I broke it, because I know for a fact that this is working. I keep all the copies on my Wix profile anyway. They can go back in and make changes if they want. If they want to change some words or just link a different button somewhere else, it's fairly easy for them to do that.

{audio:0:48:08} I guess kind Wix's pitch to the agencies is that we bring you security, ease of maintenance. You are going to have to have fewer developers and it's going to save you time and money. Does that not resonate because they don't want to retrain, there’s inertia, they are afraid of losing customers because the customers are going to start editing the sites themselves? Why is that pitch not resonating with them?

{audio:0:48:40} Are you saying the pitch from the agencies to particular business owners?

{audio:0:48:48} No, the pitch from Wix; why you should be using Editor X as opposed to WordPress. On paper, there's a lot of compelling reasons to do that, like security, lowering your labor costs, being able to churn out these websites more quickly. Why is that not resonating? Is it just they are not willing to retrain and do something different, or there are some credible reasons why Wix Editor X is not suitable for them?

{audio:0:49:17} I think honestly the biggest reason – and I've heard people talk about this as well in some not so friendly, other agencies around here – is it just goes back to that control aspect. Wix try to be the do-it-yourself platform, so a lot of times what happens is people will start up a website within Wix, trying to do it themselves, and then eventually, they'll get to a point where either they're okay, they've got it, they're good, they've learned the basics of the platform and they've figured it out, or they come to somebody to help them polish it up and build it. Throughout that process, the majority of the people that are using the platform know that they can access the site, they can see it, they can make changes if they want to. They see everything in the background, they have access to the CRM and all their visitor's information if they input it. Everything is right there. 

{audio:0:50:21} I think the agencies that don't want to use it, know that they will lose that control if they start using a platform like Wix. They won't be able to control what the client does with the site, how the client interacts or manages the site or any of the plugins or platforms that they want to use or implement. I think that also takes away from their monthly reoccurring revenue as well, like the management for a lot of those WordPress websites.

{audio:0:51:00} Aside for Wix, Webflow and WordPress, are any other website builders that you use or you keep an eye on or stay up to date with, because you think they're promising?

{audio:0:51:26} Actually, one of the things that I do is – I don't want to say invest – but I usually buy in on a lot of these early software companies and get some different deals, whether it's web design related or just overall, like online marketing tools and platforms. One of the things that I've seen a lot of people talking about, and I've actually used as well, is a company called Swipe Pages. They're all about landing pages. Basically, one-page websites. They are Google AMP pages, so accelerated mobile pages. It’s like the hybrid between a Wix and Webflow, I would say. It's definitely a little bit more advanced, a little bit higher of a learning curve. 

{audio:0:52:18} Again, I don't know if somebody could just go in there and build a site, like they would be able to on a classic Wix editor. But it's a cool platform and it goes hand in hand with any other platform. A lot of the Swipe Pages landing pages that I've built, I've also implemented onto the Wix website, because they have to be configured through the DNS settings. But it's definitely really unique; they've had a lot of updates and platform changes and stuff like that. Their team looks really cool, so it's definitely something that I've been paying attention to, and using throughout their growth.

{audio:0:53:00} You mentioned Shopify in relation to some clients that move from Shopify to Wix, which I'm kind of surprised about. What was the force behind that decision?

{audio:0:53:15} What I've noticed is, for a lot of the people that are coming directly from Shopify, what they need is more customizability on their site. From what I've found, at least for the last time that I built a Shopify site, which was probably about a year ago, is it's just not there. There is almost no comparison between the Shopify editor versus the Wix editor, and what you can do and the things you can implement. Don't get me wrong, Shopify is fantastic and I would say, arguably, the best for an ecommerce site that is not design focused.

{audio:0:53:59} But the problem is, a lot of these small businesses want to be able to tell a story, share information, and they want to do it in a creative way, not just in a text box on an ecommerce platform website. Immediately, when you're drawn to that site you think, they're just trying to sell something. But if you can create a really high-quality looking landing page that tells a story, and yes, there's also this button to shop if you want to support the business or something like that, I think a lot of people see that as a positive thing; not just landing on a Shopify page and seeing text boxes and these grid patterns and things like that everywhere. That seems to really only be what you can do in there, aside from their ecommerce stuff.

{audio:0:54:46} If you can think a couple of years into the future, what’s your sense of the outlook for Wix editor versus Webflow versus anybody else, in that SMB like small agency market?

{audio:0:55:08} For both Wix and Webflow, if you're comparing them directly, I think they're both racing to be the opposite. Wix wants to move – and I think that it shows in their Editor X – to a more advanced platform where it's hey, we're not just a do-it-yourself kind of platform; we also offer a really highly capable editor like Editor X, and you have the option to custom code whatever you need. Whereas, I think a platform like Webflow is doing the opposite, where they need to figure out okay, how can we make this easier to use for the masses of people. That's because most people that are building websites are these small businesses that are on our street corners and all over the place. They need a website. Today, you can't operate without one, so they need to go to what's most likely going to be the cheapest, easiest option, or something in the middle, that they can either do themselves or maybe hire somebody to set up, but they can manage it themselves over time. 

{audio:0:56:17} I just believe, from my experience, that Wix is the go-to platform for it. I think once people understand the platform, they really do like it. The issue is, for the majority of people, if they're not going to go through the Partner Program, really using any new platform is a little overwhelming, and seeing all the different tools that are available, from what I've noticed, at least when bringing on new clients, even businesses that have been around for a long time, they're not using everything that's available to them. It’s great being able to take that time on a phone call and say hey, look, you have this option here. 

{audio:0:56:57} A lot of times I get on and they don't even know that there's an internal CRM. They start scrolling through, when I show it on a Zoom call, and they're like, oh my God; all these people are filling out my forms. Who are they? Again, it's just about not fully understanding the product and how to use it, but that's also because Wix just keeps expanding and adding new features. When they did the CRM a few years back, it was huge, and to this day, people don't realize it's there.

{audio:0:57:33} In terms of costs, suppose I'm a financial advisor and I help people plan their retirement and I have 150 clients. I want to have a website because I want people to land and maybe I want a website that has a personal area, where people can see how much of their investments they have and stuff like that. Nothing overly complicated – I'm a small business – but something that has a bit of personalization and it looks nice so people land on it. They can say, this is a serious operation; it's not just me in my back yard. How much would you charge for that, compared to how much an agency that uses WordPress would charge, both up front and in maintenance, because I don't want to tinker with it; I want you to deal with changes and stuff?

{audio:0:58:36} I would say, at least from my experience with a lot of the agencies around here on Long Island, this varies depending on the partners, as well. The way the Marketplace works, you can submit a project request and you could choose to, I only want to work with people in the United States; I only want to work with people in Canada or wherever. They could exclude the super cheap labor outside, where they don't even speak English. That’s going to vary tremendously, because you can go on Fiverr or something like that and hire somebody from wherever, and pay $200 and get a website on Wix. You’re taking your chances there. I've seen people come back with some really crazy stuff. Just this week, somebody had really bad stuff on the site; it was just crazy. 

{audio:0:59:41} When you're looking at a lot of the US based Wix partners and editors, a lot of people are trying to do this minimum of, say, around 2,000 to build a website; between 2,000 and 4,000, especially for a well-established business. I know, for a fact, that a lot of Partners are really qualifying the leads before they do that initial price. It depends on their availability and things like that. Even myself, I will take a project for a lot less if I know I have a week where you know nothing is going on and I can squeeze it in there. And it's going to be quick; it's something that I can turn around quick, within a few hours. 

{audio:1:00:28} I would say, in general, and especially where a lot of agencies are now, they're probably not going to do a website like that for less than 2,000. On the other hand, I know quite a few agencies around here that are not going to work on a website – and they're only using WordPress – for less than 5,000. That's their minimum. I guess they don't feel it's worth their time if it's anything less.

{audio:1:00:57} Is that with maintenance?

{audio:1:01:00} Yes, and that's a tough one. I wouldn't know too much about maintenance on something like that for a WordPress site. For example, I have a few clients that are again, small businesses, that are on a $150 a month retainer, and that really just covers anything that they send to me. A lot of times, at least for these businesses, it's like nothing to them. They just want to know if they send me something, I will be able to get it up within a few hours of an email. This is not like adding new pages to a site; it's just simply changing some text here and there, maybe adding in one new page or something like that. Then there's also some of my month-to-month clients and one, for example, is an online events company. Every week I'm going in there and making changes, uploading the new events and just adding all the different information for that event, and their package is about $1,200 a month, and that's just because it's a lot more hands on work.

{audio:1:02:15} We didn't speak much about Squarespace; what's your impression of them in this space of SMB?

{audio:1:02:27} Squarespace is interesting to me; I actually looked into their partner program as well. I think the biggest thing with Squarespace is they're doing a really good job of marketing themselves, and I think that's why they have had such growth. I know they're spending tremendous money on marketing. I can't seem to get away from them. As somebody that works in the industry, every time I open my phone, I see a Squarespace ad. I go to the hockey game here – I don't know if you guys know the Rangers, in New York – and their whole stadium is decked out in Squarespace stuff everywhere; Chase is the bank that hosts it, they're just everywhere. I think they're doing a good job in that sense. 

Wix: Agency Partner Perspective

Why Wix's new editor X and customer support is a significant improvement for agencies

Wix: Agency Partner Perspective

Current Wix Partner

inpractise.com/articles/wix-agency-partner-perspective

Why is this interview interesting?

Executive Bio

Current Wix Partner

Interview Transcript

Related Content

Wix: Partner Program Developments

Current Wix Partner

Wix vs Squarespace: Competing for Agencies

Former Product Manager at Squarespace

Wix and Squarespace: Agency Partner Programs

Current Wix and Square Agency Partner

Squarespace: Culture and Product Positioning

Former Product Manager at Squarespace

Partner Interview