Disclaimer: This interview is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. In Practise is an independent publisher and all opinions expressed by guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of In Practise.

{audio:0:01:52} What is your background in website design and development?

{audio:0:02:13} Everything started around the WIX platform and some classes I was taking throughout college in a class of 40 people who were running a virtual business working on different projects. That's where I was introduced to WIX and I thought it was super cool because I had no idea I could create a website so easily and be able to change stuff around and create something real in a classroom setting. I started at a digital marketing agency out here on Long Island and we were one of the first WIX partners from their partner program. I joined a few months after my boss got the partnership. I jumped in and immediately started turning out websites for different industries in both small and medium sized businesses. 

{audio:0:03:59} As time went on, we explored some different options because once you start getting the idea of basic websites layouts for different industries, we tried to apply that to the different builders. Many of our clients came from other platforms so I had to get familiar with Squarespace. We also transferred that agency's website to Webflow so I was in that editor too. I experienced many businesses who had a WordPress, Squarespace or Shopify website and come to WIX, which is a different way to look at it because I still work with many who move to WIX. 

{audio:0:05:20} I had my own ideas and wanted to push new things and we were trying to get up into the next level of clients which was hard with the team we had, so I started my own company where I manage online presence of a handful of businesses. Currently, I have three main clients I work heavily with, on a month-to-month basis, and several others in the works. Some other projects have ended but I generally look for long term relationships. That is where my work lies now.

{audio:0:06:20} Do you only use WIX in your own business or do you also use other website builders?

{audio:0:06:34} I only use WIX because of how great the partner program is. They are going to change the partner program so I don't know how much information you want?

{audio:0:07:02} What are the advantages in that program and what is changing?

{audio:0:07:12} The partner program is there to bridge the gap between technical support and needing help building a website, which sometimes overlaps. WIX has done a good job of trying to eliminate people who submit a project request because they have a problem and think they will get free support, because the partner program is not designed for that. Many of the flows that they have built out and changed over time have got rid of that issue. 

{audio:0:08:06} WIX had to develop something like this because they cannot handle the volume of business outside their top 100 websites, who are massive businesses using WIX and have their own internal teams. Many medium sized businesses who are doing well and have been on the platform a while, are looking for updates or want to redo their site and need some help and are willing to pay. Partners fill that gap and, at the end of the day, WIX keeps them on their platform, which is a good feature of the marketplace. I'm starting to see other platforms who are also doing this. Squarespace introduced something which is nowhere near the level WIX marketplace works, but they will get there after they work out their kinks. Many website builder companies will do that because they need to bridge that gap by having a partner program to keep them there. There is no way they could build out internal teams big enough to support that need. The top 100 businesses have internal people to help them out. The scale of these companies is too big for them to handle.

{audio:0:10:12} How often do you touch base with clients after you have built a website?

{audio:0:10:24} This varies and will be more geared towards my business, because each partner is independent from WIX, aside from them passing leads off to us. We handle everything on our own end, while WIX provides partners with tools they can use internally. Most agencies handle everything outside of WIX, who know about it and are okay with that. WIX built those internal partner tools for freelancers who are doing this as a side gig. For my business and how often I reach out them, before a project starts, they receive multiple messages on the first day, usually an email or text. Two days later, they get another email and text. Once we develop a project, get it in the works and finish, they will usually hear from me on a weekly basis with my newsletter and other things going out such as a blog post or monthly call-to-action of a new sign up or other feature. That relates to my business and will differ for each partner.

{audio:0:12:03} From your perspective, I would like you to compare the WIX product to Squarespace which is similar, Webflow which is more professional and WordPress which is on the open-source side. Could you walk through that spectrum slowly as I've heard a range of different views and I would imagine you had good insights there?

{audio:0:12:37} Being on both sides, I have also heard different views, especially working at the agency and then seeing our clients move between platforms. Most of my work at the agency was moving people from Shopify or Squarespace to WIX. The biggest difference between WIX and Shopify or Squarespace is the customizability of the website. Squarespace and Shopify are great for their own thing. Squarespace is great for someone who wants a standard website without much customization; they're not too particular and want simple and ready to go. Their editor is simply blocks, on which you can click to edit them or swap images. 

{audio:0:13:41} Shopify is excellent for ecommerce and if you are strictly focused on ecommerce and only worried about selling your products at scale, that is the product for you. If you're looking for a hybrid between those two, WIX is the way to go, which is why I've moved away from other platforms and use WIX for everything. I am a WIX partner after working on all the platforms because it is the easiest thing you can set up. Many businesses come from an open-source platform like WordPress, which has many features which you have to keep updated. If a plugin or hosting or SSL certificate goes down, it takes the website down or loses all your rankings, so if you're not on top of it or don't know what you're doing there, it becomes very tricky. 

{audio:0:14:58} Small businesses see ads for WIX and Squarespace where you could host a website and it's super easy, but suddenly they do some research and WordPress is everywhere. They build a WordPress website or have one built for them, then realize they cannot update it or don't know how to get into the editor or add something. That is very tricky, especially for a small business owner who only wants to do some minor updates, such as change images or text.

{audio:0:15:32} Could small businesses use an agency to manage monthly updates?

{audio:0:16:01} Yes; that is the gap my agency fills. A local restaurant could create a WIX website in a day if they uploaded all their images, but additional features have a learning curve. Compared to the other platforms, it's certainly a lot easier, and they could set up WIX restaurants through WIX Spaces, but that involves more set up and, many times, those small business owners will get confused and not have time to do it. WIX has a little button that says hire a professional, which they click and is where most of my work comes from. That is how the WIX marketplace and partner program works. Often people will get three quarters of the way there and have most of it set up, but need the final touches which takes a few hours. There is certainly overlap; I do see where you're coming from, but it is a learning curve. They could read resource articles and watch videos, but most people are not going to do that.

{audio:0:18:12} Which WIX product do you use when building websites for your clients?

{audio:0:18:26} I've worked on all three editors. WIX ADI is basic and similar to Squarespace, with block text in different sections. I pull everybody off that because there's no reason to pay me if it remains in ADI, so that will go into the classic editor. WIX currently has a beta product which allows you to transfer from a classic website to an Editor X website. I have heard good and bad and it depends how your classic website is set up. I'm sure it involves customization but I haven't tried that beta yet, although I have built several Editor X websites and it is super cool. It is that next level of customization that could go into a website, and is closer to Webflow. 

{audio:0:19:59} There is a huge learning curve that goes into Editor X when coming from the classic platform, and most small business owners cannot create a website as they can in a classic editor. WIX knows Editor X is for professional partners to help businesses who want a flashy website that spans screen resolutions and has features for mobile. More customization goes into a mobile version and that is becoming more important as most visitors come from a mobile device. I recently helped people who got halfway through building an Editor X site, finishing it for them and ensuring the scaling and margins are correct, because you have to set that up.

{audio:0:21:54} There seems to be a negative perception of Editor X in the market; have you come across that? Are there barriers and what is the general sense in the market?

{audio:0:22:24} I've done some research and heard clients talk about WIX versus WordPress, and there is a perceived notion that WIX is not customizable and their websites don't rank. Years ago, that may have been the case as WIX was being developed but that started to change. Agencies who promote that idea ultimately look at WIX as an issue for their business, because a small business owner can create a website, which serves the purpose, on the classic editor. It may not do everything they want but it gives them an online presence. That scares those big agencies who used to charge $20,000 to build a website and WIX is taking that away by driving the cost of websites down. 

{audio:0:24:28} Yesterday, I saw an article called why you shouldn't use WIX, written by a big agency out of California and it was showing up in search results. They actively work on SEO, behind the scenes, to promote that idea and they are simply capitalizing on those people who are looking for a website. Years of that has created that noise in the background saying, you shouldn't use WIX, it's not a good platform and it has these problems, but nobody ever talks about the problems WordPress has. That same company who writes bad things about WIX charge thousands per month to manage your site because they need to ensure all their plugins are updated and everything is working. If a company who supplied the plugin goes out of business, they have to find a replacement. I've seen that happen and it becomes a disaster, which is why they charge so much to manage your website. 

{audio:0:25:46} With WIX, everything is built in-house so you don't need hosting or domain and all the SSLs are done for you. The price for hosting a WIX website was recently increased from $15 to $18 on their basic plan. If they choose a WordPress website, they will be confused about the different hosting plans. That's the feedback I hear from people who started and/or move from a WordPress platform. There is a lot of money behind the marketing which pushes the idea that WIX is bad.

{audio:0:26:58} Their product is nearly as good as Webflow, so are they doing the right things to get into the more professional side?

{audio:0:27:23} One of their newer releases is called WIX Velo which was called WIX Corvid.

{audio:0:27:44} They wound up changing the name for SEO purposes because Covid/Corvid, so it was funny the way it played out, but it has expanded the WIX use case for many companies. I haven't played much with Velo because I don't know how to code, but with certain projects and in certain use cases, you can do anything you want, like a Webflow platform or others. You simply need somebody who knows how to code, which you can find on a platform like Fiverr. 

{audio:0:28:55} WIX has their own certification platform for Velo which a bunch of people are going through, and that will bridge the gap between WIX and some of the other platforms. Many people talk negatively about WIX customization being non-existent, but they can no longer say that. That's where I will go if I want to take my skill set to the next level. I currently use WIX to create what clients ask me for, whereas once Velo is available and I know how to use it, I no longer have to worry about that. This ties back to Squarespace or WordPress versus WIX, and I felt that WIX did not do a good job of making that information available to people. They didn't talk about what Velo is and how to use it. That has been an ongoing issue with WIX and partner groups have told them we need something that shows the benefits of using WIX versus others.

{audio:0:31:24} They did some videos against WordPress?

{audio:0:31:28} Yes, I've seen some of them but they need to promote it. I did a project a while back on the difference between WIX and Squarespace. If you go on YouTube today, Squarespace ads are everywhere which is why they've grown, but if they don't update their platform, people will trickle down to different areas as they want more site functionality.

{audio:0:32:14} Is there any reason you wouldn't choose Webflow over WIX, given it's a more advanced product, apart from the fact you obviously have experience with WIX?

{audio:0:32:36} The reason many people are not going to Webflow is that WIX is an established brand with a real identity in the marketplace. When I talk about Webflow with clients they have no idea what I'm talking about, whereas anybody who is looking for a website has heard of WIX. Many companies still have an internal marketing or public relations person updating their site, which is not easy to do with Webflow. WIX Ascend business tools offer posting of blog articles, sending out email campaigns, updating contacts and looking at form submissions on their site. 

{audio:0:33:58} That is a good selling point for my work when somebody is looking for a new website or moving over. I will ask them if they are using a CRM to manage form submissions, and when they can't answer that, I say they have that on one dashboard with WIX analytics. I work with one person, on an internal team, who is actively on the WIX dashboard. I do all the site updates, but she's on the dashboard checking form submissions, reviews, new contacts and sending out email campaigns, so that's a huge advantage with WIX over Webflow.

{audio:0:35:19} Webflow is harder for small businesses to manage updates internally, whereas with Editor X, they could do those smaller changes themselves?

{audio:0:35:39} If they hire a partner to build the site for them so they have that foundation, they can easily create blog posts and newsletters within their dashboard while seeing all the analytics behind it. Webflow needs a third-party app to be connected and small in-house teams need different skill sets for those areas. If no one on their internal team knows Webflow, it will be hard to make the updates look and act professionally. Often, people make an update and realize if they scale an inch or several pixels one way, suddenly that text is out of space because it was not docked to anything. Many of my quick projects involve spacing and scaling.

{audio:0:37:14} Where does GoDaddy stand in the website building space?

{audio:0:37:25} I haven't used GoDaddy's website editor or had any clients come from them. I believe their editor is fairly new. I noticed many people who use GoDaddy didn't know they had an editor, or only use them for hosting, but their site is built on WordPress or WIX. There are plenty of people who use it for hosting but I have not seen one person use their editor.

{audio:0:38:22} WIX began as a do-it-yourself product with the freemium model and are now pushing into signing up great partners like yourself to keep growing. That implies it's harder to grow on the do-it-yourself channel because that's slightly more saturated. Do you have any sense of that because they're pushing the other side of the spectrum?

{audio:0:38:57} Many existing businesses built their websites when they were a new thing, and they paid substantially for a site which has sat there and done nothing over the years. I see many construction companies who had a WordPress website, built years ago, and they see their competitors coming out with new sites with advanced functionality. They want people to be able to submit forms and ask questions. They also want a chat bot and calls to actions and new videos and images, which they weren't able to do because it was in WordPress. They don't know how or where it was built or how to update it, but are now looking for a new site.

{audio:0:40:33} Those businesses with larger budgets, spent $15,000 the last time they built a site, and they are ready to spend that money again for a new site. They don't realize the market has shifted; they have never built a website before so they have no idea how to do it. WIX is trying to capture businesses who have a website but need a new one. Construction companies have hundreds of employees but not a single person there knows how to build a website. They have an old WordPress website which is ugly and they cannot update. The guy who built it for them is long gone so they're stuck but have a huge budget and are ready to dedicate towards this. An internal person is not the answer for them so they will pay a WIX partner to build an Editor X website and they will even manage it for them. It costs less and is easier than they thought, and they can have it done quicker than they originally anticipated. 

{audio:0:42:31} Many of the businesses I work with are in that situation which is why WIX is going in this direction. It's not only for people with old websites; it's also for startups. One of my main clients is a leadership and development startup who need a website but don't know how to build one. They saw WIX, started building their site and realized it was taking too long for them. There are buttons everywhere that say hire a professional, and most businesses don't want to waste time figuring out the editor. They would rather opt for a professional who has built multiple sites before.

{audio:0:43:46} You mentioned at your previous agency you had many people who wanted to switch websites and your WordPress example makes sense to me, but I always thought if you built it in WIX, Squarespace or Webflow, you wouldn't need to switch. Apart from WordPress, which other sites did people switch from?

{audio:0:44:17} Many people came from Shopify, whose experience is great if you're strictly looking for ecommerce, but not if you have any customization. Shopify uses a simple block editor which makes it hard to customize. Shopify is great for an ecommerce platform but not great for a small business who wants to share information and show their different locations. There is no good way to add a gallery and images end up all over the place, and WIX has the majority of Shopify features in their shop app. I've had several clients with Etsy stores who built a Shopify store, but realized they need to build a brand identity which they couldn't do.

{audio:0:47:29} Are websites still a requirement for a business? When you start off you could handle it on Instagram, but to build a brand presence you need a solid website?

{audio:0:48:00} It is becoming more important because most people who are looking to buy a product or work with a specific company are doing their research. I sent a proposal and they noticed a grammar error 10 pages deep on my website. They are going deep to figure out who I am and who my clients are, which is the same for many of my clients' websites. Instagram and other social media is a great way to further that, but having a website is the next level of professionalism. Good websites have that information and behind the scenes about the team. I would argue that both are important today but having a website is number one. I did a lot of classes on social media and the different platforms and demographics behind those platforms. It's important to determine which is the best platform for your business because most small businesses cannot manage multiple platforms unless they hire a team.

{audio:0:50:24} Apart from WIX being more vocal about their products and the advantages, what could they improve or where else are they deficient?

{audio:0:50:48} The WIX support team for partners and regular customers is fantastic, especially if the person or partner knows exactly what they're talking about. It's hard for a support team to figure out what's wrong when working with somebody on an internal team who cannot explain the issue. That is where most support complaints come from. Things I wish WIX had, include being more vocal about their products and services and the way they tie everything in. I've seen some of the wording change on their platforms and site because they are moving away from being a website builder to what they call an online business manager. As a partner, I get frustrated when every time I go on YouTube or am scrolling somewhere, I see Squarespace is everywhere. 

{audio:0:52:49} I'm a big hockey fan and Squarespace has a presence at Madison Square Garden for the Rangers, who I'm not a fan of so it annoys the crap out of me. Squarespace are everywhere and WIX are not. At the end of the day, the more they advertise and make a name for themselves, the better off it is for the partner program. It is Squarespace, in particular, because I haven't seen much for Shopify, GoDaddy or Webflow. I feel like WIX should also compete in that area and I cannot figure out why they're not. I know things are going well internally as I've seen the growth of the different platforms and teams. 

{audio:0:54:11} A year ago, I interviewed to work for WIX and run the partnership on the side. Many people don't realize they're currently hiring everywhere. It was amazing to see those teams growing globally. During the interviews, I learned they were spending a fortune researching how to help businesses in lower income countries. I thought that was super interesting but why not in the UK, the United States or Canada. There has to be a reason; I simply don't know what it is.

{audio:0:55:29} Are you specifically talking about why they're not visibly advertising or marketing themselves to acquire more customers?

{audio:0:55:40} If you look at demand generation, their blog has been super active and a lot of their pages rank in the top three. Perhaps their plan is to get rid of or significantly cut back on paid advertising and go for more demand generation. Compare that to Squarespace, who may be taking the exact opposite approach, because I haven't seen Squarespace in search results. WIX had a podcast which they were marketing but I looked at it yesterday and they haven't posted anything since November 2021. 

{audio:0:57:21} When it comes to the editor, not much is lacking. An example I always share with people is a guy on Long Island who rented Airstreams and was making a ton of money during Covid. We were trying to figure out how to set up his site so that people could rent them directly from him and book it through the website, because he was doing it all by phone and he could no longer cope. I found an app you could install on WIX for hotels. We simply set up each Airstream as a hotel room, customizing turnaround times and it worked and the guy is still using it today. Somebody else may not have figured that out if they didn't have the time or the idea to search for it in the WIX app marketplace.

{audio:0:59:33} That is related to your point of educating the market about their offering.

{audio:0:59:39} They have tons of support articles but nobody reads those. We don't need a 45-minute video tutorial, we want five minutes on how to use a tool and, if you want to dive in, you could spend your own time investigating further. They could include some use cases for it because if you look at WIX Hotels, you think I'm not running a hotel so I cannot use it. But anybody is booking out or renting anything can use WIX Hotels; it doesn't have to be a room. Explaining those tools and apps to the market can show whey they are better than Shopify.

{audio:1:01:03} That's an interesting anecdote and useful. You sound quite bullish on the future prospects of WIX in general; would that be accurate to say or what does that look like for WIX in 10 years?

{audio:1:01:42} The internal people make a company and I met many smart people there. They will do well but they need to figure out how to market it better and where they're going. They could be spending a lot of money entering new markets which nobody else is thinking about. That is perhaps where they see the next wave of business, but I don't know much about that. At the end of the day, as long as they keep updating their editor and making things more available and easier to use, to bridge the gap by allowing people like me to be the internal person at small businesses to manage and polish up their website, they will do pretty well. I don't see Squarespace updating their editor, but they need to in order to compete with WIX.

{audio:1:03:57} Would there be any reason for someone to prefer WordPress to WIX?

{audio:1:04:10} After WIX Velo, there is no longer a good reason. With a toggle on the editor, you can go from custom coding to their regular drag and drop website editor. Unless a business has a huge budget to dedicate to a team to manage every little aspect of their online business, there's not much of an advantage to a WordPress website. That's where the market falls. WIX is for small and medium size businesses who are not too reliant on a website and simply need an online presence. For companies who spend $100,000 a month on their online presence, WordPress has a lot of flexibility and customization but it takes massive teams to do that.

{audio:1:05:49} Is there anything else we did not cover?

{audio:1:05:59} I explain to my clients there is money behind the negative promotion of WIX. Many bigger agencies are pushing that because they want to have full control. When they build a WordPress website, they know they them by the neck, as everything is in their hands. With a platform like WIX, my client could change everything on the site today, whereas if somebody has a WordPress website and hired an agency or freelancer, they won't have direct access to make those changes, which agencies want because it keeps them in business.

{audio:1:07:16} That's an insightful point and they are obviously economically motivated. You mentioned $15,000 for a WordPress site; how would that compare to WIX? It is not apples to apples because here you get hosting and security in one shot, but what is the website building cost a partner would take?

{audio:1:08:12} For this project, I gave them a quote of $5,500 which is on the higher end for me. Many of my sites are between $2,000 and $3,000, starting from the beginning. If they have an old WordPress website, I want nothing to do with it and will simply build them a new one, which will take me several hours of real work. The hardest part is getting all the files we need, the copy they want to use and the fonts and colors. Once I have that, I can bang out a website in a day or two of solid work, if it's a fairly simple website without forums which take longer. For an informational site with five or 10 pages, it would be around that price point. That is because the time it takes me to do that has gone down significantly thanks to WIX, whereas a WordPress site would take months to build a few years ago.

{audio:1:09:47} I appreciate your time and best of luck with your business, I hope you keep growing.

Wix: Partner Program Developments

Current Wix Partner

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