And you have an argument about it, and they would see. How would they typically approach these discussions then? They look at your Excel sheet. 

After a while, still pre-merger, Topicus became larger and more professional. They said, "We can't do this one-on-one anymore because it's a mess. We have dozens of initiatives not only in education but also in finance and healthcare. There is no overview, so we have to centralize this, etc." Now we have an investment board, so you had to pitch it there. But even there, the pitch itself being strategic was very important. The idea that the company had to grow and look for new markets was ingrained in the DNA, so you had to make money with the original proposal or it had to be sensible. The strategic part was very important, as were the avenues that it would open for further growth.