{audio:0:00:31} Dutta, could you provide a short introduction to your background please?

{audio:0:00:38} I have a diverse background. I first trained as an engineer then took on different types of roles. My personal objective was to see how things got done. I spent time in product management, marketing, mergers and acquisition integration, operations and ultimately, customer experience at Google, where I had the opportunity to get my hands dirty transforming organizations with an objective of keeping the customer first.

{audio:0:01:33} At Google and Pinterest, I saw a holistic view of the end-to-end customer journey. I built teams that could grow and scale in terms of footprint and international expansion. In addition, from a cost perspective, we drove sustainable growth more profitably.

{audio:0:02:15} Before we dive into customers, how would you describe the typical Pinner?

{audio:0:02:26} A typical Pinner is anyone engaging with the platform to find inspiration and things to do. Pinterest's mission is to help people discover inspiring things they can do in real life. Most Pinners engage with Pinterest to find novel ways to explore. Pinterest is an interesting platform because it is very visual.

{audio:0:03:18} We have over 450 million users, a good number of which are international. When the platform started it was mainly women but is more gender balanced today. A large proportion of the audience are millennials.

{audio:0:03:58} What drives younger males to Pinterest?

{audio:0:04:05} Some Pinterest categories, such as good eating and lifestyle, also concern men. A great example is the food category and with COVID keeping people home, one can only do so many protein shakes. So a Pinner asks what other healthy alternatives can I make, taking an existing recipe and substituting ingredients to alter the fat or protein content? Those are questions both sexes ask and what they look for on Pinterest.

{audio:0:05:03} Many people search for Keto recipes and seek out which aspects they can swap to create new things. Another gender-neutral area is gardening which may not be an activity they have engaged in before. If they want to have freshly grown tomatoes on their small patio, how do they do it? Pinterest excels at helping you figure out how to articulate that idea into an actionable set of steps to enact in real life.

{audio:0:06:02} How do you compare the Pinterest user journey versus a Google Search?

{audio:0:06:12} A typical Google Search has, on average, 10 keywords, which implies you know what you are looking for and are trying to make a last-minute decision and look for options. The user is at the end of their purchase journey, almost ready to buy, which is why Google advertising focuses on last click attribution and what happens at last conversion.

{audio:0:07:09} Over 96% of all Pinterest searches are unbranded. This implies customers are still in the consideration phase. They know that want a Keto recipe but are unsure if it is plant-based or one they want to modify. Brands have not come in yet so it is more mid-funnel. They are aware but they have not made a decision yet, which is amazing from a user's perspective; we help them make their vision a reality. On the flip side, it also provides our customers, the advertisers, an opportunity to present their products more neutrally.

{audio:0:08:12} Once you are looking for a Nike shoe you are deciding which style you want for exercise. If you are looking for fitness routines however, then many more companies could choose to offer you their product.

{audio:0:08:38} There was a comment in the S-1 that the engagement on Pinterest is the equivalent of searching through 50 pages of Google Search and, therefore, a much deeper, longer engagement from users on Pinterest versus Search.

{audio:0:08:54} Our engagement is on average 10 minutes per session whereas most other platforms have a rapid news feed scroll based approach. Users constantly flick through ideas and each creator or influencer attempts to grab their attention with something which will pause the scrolling action. Pinterest users are there with an intent to look for ideas to make real.

{audio:0:09:34} Could you describe the middle part of the purchasing funnel which seems to be quite opaque?

{audio:0:09:43} From an advertiser perspective, at some point, somebody buys something. At the end of the funnel everyone competes in an auction where competition drives prices. The best way to look at things is return on ad spend. Are you getting incrementality and can we prove those elements through either first or third-party information?

{audio:0:10:22} Pinterest operates in this less competitive mid-funnel position for advertisers where they can bid much cheaper on keywords or spaces where the consumer lies, rather than at the very competitive end of the funnel?

{audio:0:10:41} Exactly, similar to distributing fliers near your favorite coffee store offering $2 off a cup of latte. They are literally on the block and would probably walk in and grab the thing anyway, but now every transaction you lose $2. If you spread those $2 in a different way by attracting people in other areas to entice them to your coffee, you get new customers who were not already in line. That is the difference between a mid-funnel and bottom of the funnel markets.

{audio:0:11:40} How would you compare the user journey in the funnel with Instagram?

{audio:0:11:50} Instagram are trying to do similar things at this point. They have implemented native content, such as carousels, so that people engage versus just repeatedly scroll. It is a question of intent and why people visit the platform. People scroll through Instagram when they are bored or quickly changing a status; I call these things filling time apps. You are queuing and scrolling because it is a nice diversion to an otherwise monotonous activity.

{audio:0:12:52} For example, a Pinterest user is planning their dinner and looking for bread recipes, not randomly scrolling. They create a shopping list based on recipes they have found, for example. Or now that many people are working from home, they may want to create a list of things to improve their work at home office setting. They are going there with a specific intent which matters and there is a big difference between Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest. People visit the platform with an intent of realizing a vision versus passing time and only occasionally finding amazing content.

{audio:0:13:51} Users may find someone producing great content and save them to eventually engage with deeper; the journey is very different.

{audio:0:14:11} How have performance advertisers looked at Pinterest over the last decade?

{audio:0:14:19} As recently as five years ago, almost all advertisers were centered around last-click attribution, when they advertise, they want a sale or a specific action. The metric which they measure you on is a cost per action. The challenge is once everybody does that, keywords and interests cost more and you end up distributing advertising to those who had already made up their minds. Why spend X dollars to be at the top of a Google page when they probably would have clicked the link anyway?

{audio:0:15:26} You do not get incrementality. There has been a shift in the marketplace where more advertisers need to acquire new customers and this is an area where Pinterest has shone. Another disruption is the direct-to-consumer players with whom traditional companies are now having to compete.

{audio:0:16:21} Examples are the Casper mattress and other sleep enhancing products such as gravity blankets which have weights in them to help you fall asleep by simulating a hug or cuddle. They have done well, but as a direct-to-consumer player, they have to find customers which is extremely expensive to switch at the last minute. It is easier to find people who are already looking for new bedding or home decoration ideas and advertise to them by informing them of new products in a category that did not exist.

{audio:0:17:35} How is Pinterest in a prime position to fill that void?

{audio:0:17:45} We operate in the consideration phase where 97% of our searches are unbranded. This means an unknown gravity blanket can advertise much cheaper than if they tried to capture the blanket keyword at Google or Facebook. If they are at the end of the funnel, you pay more because they have already made up their minds, whereas if you are earlier you pay less. Pinterest lies in the middle in the awareness or consideration phase, which is why customers come to us.

{audio:0:18:33} What has previously been a hesitation to allocate dollars to Pinterest?

{audio:0:18:39} Marketers want reach because it has, traditionally, been a very good metric. Reaching a bunch of people who would never engage with your product, however, is not the most efficient use of your dollar spend. There has been a big evolution in understanding who your target audience is. 10 years ago, people would have three or four personas; Jenny who shops weekly for groceries or Bob who goes once to a store. With data today you can construct hundreds of segments.

{audio:0:19:31} They have discovered that certain segments perform well on certain platforms. As a result, you can calculate what works better for a younger demographic on Snap and what the equivalent for that demographic is on Instagram or Pinterest. Dollar Shave Club is a good example. Their Instagram page is very male oriented because they are trying to connect with a male audience.

{audio:0:20:39} When they go to Pinterest, however, there is a very different set of creatives. Shaving products are unisex so they have women's products as well as interesting beauty tips alongside the razor, because beauty is a good category regardless. They look at which categories perform well on which platform and are able to distribute accordingly. Six years ago, the equation was simple; put some money in Google and Facebook and that is it. The world has changed where you have much more data about your customers and you know which customer engages where and at what time. Now you can spend the money much more efficiently by diversifying across platforms, which is what the most sophisticated advertisers are doing.

{audio:0:21:38} It also seems to democratize access to that new consumer?

{audio:0:21:42} That is absolutely right; reaching new customers with recently launched products. I love Google but how do you search for something if you do not know it exists? There has to be a way to broadcast that. Google own YouTube where advertisers insert cutting edge new content which is more in the awareness realm. People use YouTube for entertainment and are forced to watch a six second ad – which customers equate to a TV ad you had to watch – before you see it. There is clearly an awareness element, but do you get in the moment engagement on content? The answer to that question is still hotly debated.

{audio:0:22:44} How do you see the user base evolving and spreading to different categories?

{audio:0:22:59} There was a time when people believed that men never took care of their skin. That is no longer true and the men's skincare market is growing exponentially. Areas with strong associations to genders or profiles are all, rightfully, getting mixed up because people are much more complicated than one or two attributes. This means companies have to do more work to understand their customers. Traditionally, they would do annual market research, look at some trends then set everything in motion.

{audio:0:23:58} Today, customer segments are more dynamic and bleed into each other. There is also an increase in external events affecting business. In the US, this summer, there was a call for change in social media around Black Lives Matter which create new dynamics to engage customers. Many companies have unintentionally committed a faux-pas by not applying the same scrutiny which was seen as insensitive, which can ultimately deflate a company brand.

{audio:0:25:06} It is important to understand their customers at a much deeper level using the data they have. They also need to monitor the consumer's mood which tends to change more rapidly.

{audio:0:25:41} Pinterest operate in the consideration phase and have the unique asset of human curated images; users typically input broad keyword searches like Valentine's Day present.

How do you build the architecture to drive the conversion and the real value add for customers?

{audio:0:26:21} If you are in the consideration phase, most advertisers know what to expect. There is an attribution window; what are you going to attribute to in what time frame? At Pinterest, we recommend a 30-day attribution window because, in the consideration phase, you are not going to look at a sofa and buy it immediately.

{audio:0:27:19} A typical last-click attribution would be 7-7-1 which is seven days of look back, seven days of activity and when does that click happen, whereas 30-30-1 is the norm for Pinterest advertisers. They advertise earlier to give people time to make a purchase. Using Black Friday as an example, many customers in the advertising space start to build in Christmas holiday shopping if they are on Google. The ad creation volume peaks in November because they are trying to optimize for Thanksgiving and post-Thanksgiving in the US.

{audio:0:28:24} With Pinterest, people run campaigns as early as September. Consumers want to spend time researching when they spend $600 on a gift. This is an industry-wide trend. Today in the world of COVID, they have all already started their holiday campaigns.

{audio:0:29:22} We are recording this in November and most US stores already have Christmas decorations up and Christmas items on sale. Four years ago, it would have been unheard of to have Christmas decorations up before Halloween. Even physical retailers are reacting to early planning and awareness to give people time to figure these things out.

{audio:0:30:05} How do advertisers split dollars between Pinterest, Instagram and Google?

{audio:0:30:17} Every advertiser is different and it depends what they are trying to accomplish. New product launches require a different strategy than directing people towards a sale to get rid of inventory. The media mix will ultimately depend on your objective.

{audio:0:30:44} When comparing Instagram to Pinterest, do advertisers purely look at ROI and the targeting of the platform? How are the two platforms weighed up?

{audio:0:31:11} It depends what you are looking for. If you are looking for a food provider and you want people to buy ingredients, you can put it on Instagram, but how many people will buy it or be influenced to do something? If you are already searching for recipes it would be better to advertise on Pinterest. Conversely, if you want the latest Nike shoes which are a collaboration with a specific influencer who has the biggest reach on Instagram, why would you put that on Pinterest? There is no direct answer even though I wish there was a silver bullet to these things.

{audio:0:32:05} It seems like Pinterest has a wider product category than Instagram?

{audio:0:32:11} Instagram has great strengths in fashion; the basic engagement is FOMO: fear of missing out. If your product is more FOMO oriented you should probably be thinking Instagram, which goes to trends and fashion or styles. You need to figure out the type of audience and what the engagement of that audience is on both those platforms. You get better return on ad spend by understanding who your customers are and where they spend their time.

{audio:0:33:09} Every platform has many people. There are boomers on TikTok but you cannot sell AARP advertising on TikTok; you would rather be on Facebook because they use it to connect with family. AARP is the American Association of Retired Professionals and they sell memberships. They understand Facebook, have been using it for a while and if you want to sell products to an older demographic, Facebook is an amazing place. There are also many younger people on Facebook so it depends on the product, who your customer target is and where that customers lives and engages in social media.

{audio:0:34:25} Taking the case of an individual small merchant who is selling a protein or a Keto dieting product, would they have to ingest their catalog onto Pinterest or Instagram and then compare the ROI to allocate the budget effectively?

{audio:0:35:08} Anyone who is thinking about one platform only is missing out on something. As a small business starting out, I would want to see how many people were looking for food or diet which are trends you can see on Pinterest. There are similar audience insights for Instagram, Google and others. Adding a feed and creating a profile are free. You can easily create a business profile on Pinterest or Instagram, upload the feed of your products, ensure your boards are curated and organically see what benefit you get.

{audio:0:36:05} You do not have to go with paid advertising immediately. Pinterest recently launched a new format called Story Pins that allows you to do step-by-step instruction. Unlike stories on Instagram which disappear, on Pinterest they stay because they are meant to be things you do over a period of time.

{audio:0:37:03} You can easily create interesting content on top of that feed and see how organic works out and that’s how I would encourage experimentation and play. There is no great answer to know which audience will click. Everyone has waited for the viral video formula which does not exist. It is important to continuously measure engagement. Which things resonate or show up in parallel and what are the adjacent categories? What is great about platforms like Instagram, Pinterest and YouTube is that if something is not performing, you can delete it and try something else.

{audio:0:37:56} That highlights the importance of understanding the difference in user intent; Pinterest and Instagram have contrasting user journeys which lead to different advertiser outcomes.

{audio:0:38:12} Absolutely and people advertise across the entire funnel; Dollar Shave Club has ads on Pinterest, YouTube and Instagram. They choose YouTube for people who have never considered the product or know that it exists. For Pinterest and Instagram, it may be humorous to attract and engage subscribers. A Google user knows they want Dollar Shave Club but are looking for that last promo code to convert.

{audio:0:39:01} Pinterest is unique in their advertising method being aligned with the middle of the user journey.

{audio:0:39:20} Many focus group participants say they have never seen any advertising on Pinterest. When we show them an ad, they admit to not realizing it. The advertiser was not misleading; it was very clearly stated that it was an ad. However, the content style matched exactly. An interesting example was for a major alcoholic brand around the creation of cocktails. Most people do not drink rum on the rocks; they make a concoction and if they are hosting a virtual happy hour, they want to show off. Recently the virtual happy hour thing became popular and the number of cocktails sold increased exponentially because everyone tried to up their cocktail game.

{audio:0:41:20} Is that the next evolution of advertising?

{audio:0:41:23} Yes, you are absolutely correct, and this is where Instagram comes into play. You are not only wearing the latest sneakers, you have taken a beautifully curated shot in a skateboard park or a fashionable setting which highlights both the shoe and the aspirational lifestyle. It is subtle in a way that makes a consumer think, this is how I would like to look and this is the shoe I need.

{audio:0:42:13} Instagram obviously have a huge amount of Facebook data points whereas Pinterest is more image and tag driven. Is there a difference in target capability between platforms?

{audio:0:42:33} Pinterest has 450 million users which is not exactly a small data set. That is way more than Twitter, Snap and others. Instagram is definitely bigger but they have been around longer and therefore have a bigger reach. The same attributes are available on almost all platforms. Instagram, Pinterest, Snap and Twitter have similar demographics and audiences. The question is less about which audiences they have and more about which ones you want to target.

{audio:0:43:27} Because the advertising is deeply aligned with the user journey, is it possible for Pinterest to increase the ad load much higher than other digital assets?

{audio:0:43:47} Increasing ad load is never a great idea because it can destroy trust in the system. You have to maintain a healthy balance between advertising and content because the spirit of the platform is democratized information and ideas from everyone. When it is overtaken by ads it looks disingenuous, which ultimately erodes trust, resulting in less engagement over time. Many studies suggest that increasing ad load is bad for long term business. It may give short term increases in revenue but fundamentally destroys trust.

{audio:0:45:20} That highlights why Pinterest is so unique; YouTube has those ads you hate and cannot wait to skip whereas Pinterest users hardly notice them.

{audio:0:45:33} That is part of it but just because people hardly notice or do not seem to mind, you still want to maintain integrity by keeping Pinners first. Creators contribute great content which Pinners consume. Advertisers also supply content to bolster the experience rather than only optimizing for revenue.

{audio:0:46:11} Can we discuss shopping in more detail and the conversion layer of the funnel, providing some context into how that has evolved on Pinterest over the past five years?

{audio:0:46:26} Shopping has had a major evolution and companies have a specific format with a buy button on the product itself. A few years ago, you would see something on Pinterest then complete the transaction elsewhere. Our users continually told us it would be great if Pinterest was a place where you could both see and buy things.

{audio:0:47:31} That has changed the shopping journey, making Pinterest more shoppable. In your feed, you can indicate if consumers can buy direct and point them to your website or shopping cart. We have already built very deep integrations into the product. We noticed an interesting experience many people had buying on other platforms. My own story involved amazing shoes which were supposedly so comfortable. I bought them and after they arrived, I realize they were terrible; the soles literally did not bend.

{audio:0:48:30} This was not a shoe but a piece of plastic and I could not believe I wasted $150. Even though I still regret it, I was at fault by not checking if I could return it. I later found out it was a drop-shipping site who had spun up a great video and testimonial which I am not sure were real. Pinterest stepped in and created the Verified Merchant Program, the intent of which was to use markers of trust. Do they have a customer service number and is their website sophisticated?
Is it easy to contact somebody? How does their support rank when engaging on social media? We qualified these markers of trust giving blue check marks to verified merchants. In this way, when you come to Pinterest, not only can you see and buy it, you will also like it.

{audio:0:50:09} Instagram have a similar vision for shopping. Does it come back to user intent signaling the opportunity between product categories on Pinterest and Instagram?

{audio:0:50:27} It is ultimately about what users want to do and why they are in that platform. A user on Google is not looking to do many of these things. They are after amazingly fast accurate answers which is what the product was designed for. If, however, you want to figure out if a mustard colored top would look better search cannot help you. You would need to look at pictures and see which platform has what. Are you talking about mustard or clothing? Are you talking about trends or furnishing? It revolves around what audiences are doing on which platforms.

{audio:0:51:32} Looking at potential inflection points for shopping on Pinterest, are there evolutions in the ad tech stack or architecture which would drive bidding or ingestion of catalogs?

{audio:0:51:56} We are seeing very good uptake of that and expect it to grow. The technology is there and Pinterest were first with image object detection. In a living room scene with a lamp and sofa, when you highlight the picture it knows you are looking at a sofa and will show related items. Pinterest invested heavily on those enhancements and are now being replicated on other platforms. You can take a picture of a food item and get recipes, which I often do. I take a picture of my fridge contents and use Pinterest's landscape ability to show me recipes with tomatoes, onions and meat.

{audio:0:52:56} A lot of this is not only the technical architecture but how users use the product. When you supply a picture of an apple to Google Lens, it will only show you more apple pictures. It is designed to give you more information compared to understanding the link between audiences.

{audio:0:53:32} How easy is it for Google to replicate Pinterest's unique intellectual property of human curated images?

{audio:0:53:44} Everything is technically possible but what want to do on your platform is vital. There is a saying in Silicon Valley that if you build it they will come. But this is never true. You can build a lot of things but people may never come. People establish trust with platforms that have added value. They see a certain use case that helps them discover their vision and bring it to life. That is what makes Pinterest Pinterest.

{audio:0:56:04} How do advertisers split their digital budget between Google, Facebook and this new mix of middle of the funnel which is Pinterest?

{audio:0:56:17} What are you trying to do or what do you want? If you are Gap and you have an end of season sale to get rid of inventory through online sources, that media would be very different from the same CMO launching a new category of denim jackets for X type of person. Both Google and Pinterest will feature but the ratio changes, depending on your goal. There is no formula saying put X in Google and Y in Pinterest because that will result in terrible ROI. If money was infinite you could do that, but I would not advise anyone to invest their media dollars in that way.

{audio:0:57:19} A CMO or marketer is fundamentally responsible for moving specific metrics. These include online sales, in-store traffic, landing page clicks, signing up to e-mail notifications for future product releases or even a reservation for a new car. Advertisers and companies have many objectives, making it impossible to recommend a ratio between Google, Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram and Twitter.

{audio:0:58:08} In the Gap clearing inventory example, they have a particular customer base they sell jeans to, so technically they could allocate them to Google, Pinterest and Instagram?

{audio:0:58:21} Do you want the inventory moved immediately and are you handing out coupons? Do not put it on Pinterest because the whole thing operates best on a 30-day window. Rather put everything on Google to get rid of inventory and people are probably looking for sale items. However, if you are launching a new product of higher value you should put some on Google because somebody is going to see an ad that you also created in print, TV or online video and need to know what this new denim jacket looks like. There are also some people you want to reach who are looking for denim jackets but do not know Gap has a new denim jacket style which is currently trending. Why would someone Pinterest?

{audio:0:59:27} That is reflected in the 7-7-1 attribution on Google and 30-30-1 on Pinterest.

{audio:0:59:35} As you can see each time I give this example, the number of variables increase and the decision becomes, if this, do that. I hope that gives a little bit of color into why that is; it is not an interesting business school answer. It depends because you are dealing with up to 30 variables.

{audio:1:00:10} Pinterest also seems deeply aligned with brand advertising, giving brands the potential to really cement themselves in the architecture of a consumer's mind.

{audio:1:00:27} Ultimately every brand advertiser produces a product to drive sales down the road. It is brand awareness to some degree but I would not call it brand advertising. There are very few online advertisers that are purely brand. An example of a brand advertiser from back in the day would be during a Superbowl where they would have these ephemeral ads for Coke – happiness and life – with no product ever. Another is Budweiser, where it is not simply selling a product but promoting Budweiser as a brand with many products beneath it. In digital advertising, most times people are launching a brand and a product so it is more than pure brand advertising.

{audio:1:01:40} Is the brand safety image of Pinterest different from YouTube or Facebook?

{audio:1:01:50} We have many more policies to ensure compliance. There are many health categories like suicide where we will not advertise and only show public service announcements. You can make money by selling more advertising on these categories but the company chose not to pursue those because it is a slippery slope. What seems risky to one company could be a brand image to another. An example from my past is Axe who make deodorants. Almost all their ads, even the public ones, are slightly racy.

{audio:1:02:53} Axe's branding targets a younger demographic so it is supposed to be racy and that is their image. If you put that image alongside a trailer for a Disney movie it is no longer brand safe because of the audience, so you get into all these issues. Although Pinterest have taken a stronger stance on these issues and not optimized on revenue, they do not have to course correct on the way.

{audio:1:05:22} We discussed the middle of the funnel and the future of online shopping; do you see Pinterest as an e-commerce site or an advertising business?

{audio:1:05:57} I am not going to be the person who speculates about the future. What I can say is that social commerce, as a category, is something which is emerging and we will see more of. Instagram is going in that direction and most social platforms are figuring out the blend of awareness versus ability for people to transact in the moment when they feel like it. There are many drivers to it. Earlier commerce and awareness was different due to the time it took to fulfill a transaction. You had to put your card in, do this and that, whereas today it is more streamlined.

{audio:1:06:55} If you think about your regular day-to-day life where you walk down the street and see an amazing store front, that is what social media is trying to recreate; good ideas to see. Those experiences will migrate towards social media and Chinese companies are at the forefront.

{audio:1:07:51} The Taobao platform hosts 5,000 live streams per day; 150,000 hours of content. Those live streams are meant to sell things to people, almost like a QVC in the US on steroids. There will be peaks and troughs but the convergence of social commerce is a future reality.

{audio:1:08:54} What can Western companies learn from the Chinese about social commerce?

{audio:1:09:02} One of the reasons social commerce is so prevalent in China is that everyone has mobile payment enabled; they transact for physical goods via phone. Moving that experience online is simple because you can transact very quickly. Most people are on WeChat or Alipay which removes the infrastructure level friction thereby allowing these models to move rapidly.

{audio:1:10:06} The West is still on credit cards and mobile payments are not as prevalent. COVID is pushing this harder and faster so we will get there but they have had very few choices. Closed ecosystems such as WeChat hosts many mini apps with an integrated payment infrastructure. As the Western world adopts those ideas, which they are, those types of models will also proliferate.

{audio:1:10:53} If the future of this space is social commerce, which factors define success?

{audio:1:11:10} I would return to something fundamental; understand where your audience is. What are they doing, why are they doing it and why are they engaging on platforms?

Pinterest: Middle of the Funnel

How user intent differs on Pinterest compared to Google Search, Facebook, or Instagram

Core differences in middle and end of the funnel user journeys and advertising products

Pinterest: Middle of the Funnel

Former Global Head of Customer Success and Operations at Pinterest

inpractise.com/articles/pins-middle-of-funnel

Why is this interview interesting?

Executive Bio

Dutta Satadip

Former Global Head of Customer Success and Operations at Pinterest

Interview Transcript

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Pinterest: Middle of the Funnel(November 2, 2020)

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