So basically, are you implying that, at least in Europe, where there is clearly overcapacity, the decision not to close breweries might be somewhat rational? I recall Heineken's breweries operating at around 50% or lower utilization in Europe as a whole. The decision not to close them might be due to the risk to local brands if local breweries are closed.

Depending on whether you look at technical or mint capacity, your number is not too far off. The overcapacity will likely increase because the main question is about the biggest brewery in the Netherlands, which still does one-third of the volume for the US If import rates go up by 25%, then the case for investing in breweries in the Netherlands or in a new facility in the US becomes significant. We're talking about probably half a billion in investment right away. These are not easy cases.

What's your two-minute summary on the future of Europe for Heineken? What can be expected?

My two-minute summary is that, from a revenue perspective, there's limited opportunity to significantly increase prices because the gap with private labels has widened. The trend slightly goes against Europe due to the on-premise market.