But what are the benefits of that?

By controlling the fees, you don't rely on a third-party issuer, which means you don't have to share the retribution from the government. In each country, the government gives you a percentage of the transaction. If you are the EETS issuer, you receive the full amount without sharing it with anyone else. However, you need to develop your own box and platform, which is costly, but it makes you fully independent. At Edenred and UTA, we believed it was better to partner with someone else who could handle the burden of certification and the context for different countries.

Let's move to fleet and mobility. Let's talk a little about telematics, mapping, and Eurowag itself, comparing it to UTA and DKV. How locally specific and complex is telematics technology? Is it complex or commoditized in the market?

No, I would say telematics seems simple and commoditized, but it's quite complex. You need to capture a lot of data, transfer all that data if you want to get speed, fuel consumption from the truck, etc., depending on the load of the truck, and so on. I wasn't deeply involved in telematics because, as I said, UTA didn't have a proper product for that. But I know the boxes are complex, the data you collect is complex, and you need to put all the geo data on the right road, and so on. UTA was using the telematics embedded into the UTA box from Telepass, and we were using the Telepass web portal as a white label to display information. When I left, it wasn't a standalone product; it was just an add-on for the customer. It wasn't a key value proposition from UTA.

What was the UTA product roadmap, and how did it evolve over time? Did it change with the Edenred ownership, or did it not?

In terms of product and tech roadmap, the major product initiative was transitioning toll systems to EETS, converting local schemes into the European interoperable scheme. We expanded into many countries. The second focus was on EV charging, with a substantial push in that area. On the tech roadmap, we rebuilt a comprehensive platform for mobility and light fleet vehicles to target the SME market. In the truck sector, deals with large companies take considerable time. Edenred is steering UTA towards light fleet vehicles for SMEs, targeting small companies with around five vehicles and four drivers, using online sales.