{audio:0:00:00} Manuel, could you provide some context to when you first joined the luxury watch industry?

{audio:0:00:09} I joined the industry back in 2001, but I was pretty much born in this industry. I’ve lived in Switzerland and I’ve been born and raised in a city that is famous for its watchmaking industries. It’s always been a part of my life. My grandfather, my mother and lots of my family members worked in the watch industry. I tried to flee away from it, not very successfully.

{audio:0:00:42} I studied Industrial Design and I did my economics studies and I worked more in FMCG and consulting, rather than the watch industry. I think it was back in 2000, I had this opportunity to join the watch industry, which I was, obviously, very aware of and very sensitive to, because of living in this environment, being born and raised in watchmaking families. I managed to join this watch group, back in 2000, before moving to Jacquets Droz in 2001.

{audio:0:01:41} Back then, I was in my late twenties, so I think I was the third youngest CEO in the watch industry, when I joined Jacquets Droz. I joined it, having worked for another company from this watch group.

{audio:0:01:56} What is the history and heritage of Jacquets Droz and why do you think that matters to consumers so much?

{audio:0:02:09} It has one of the oldest watchmaking histories. It’s a watchmaker that was famous in the 18th century. It was one of the leading watchmakers, back then. An incredible inventor of, not only watches, but also automatons, as you say. I think there was a lot of history, in this brand, because it dates back over 250 years. History and heritage are very important, because they build trust. They build this idea of longevity, of something that has been there, over the years, that has been of quality, over the years. But also, that has been current, to a certain extent. Those are elements that increase the perceived value and, therefore, build the trust into a brand.

{audio:0:03:16} History and heritage don’t, necessarily, mean that a brand has more value than another one. Nevertheless, somehow, deep inside this history and tradition and heritage, they build trust. We all think that a company that dates back to the 16th, 17th, 18th centuries, in any field, really provides this feeling of trust. We can trust this company, because it’s been there for years and years.

{audio:0:04:07} How do you bring that trust through into the story and the marketing and the product and the real core of the company?

{audio:0:04:17} I think you need to build bridges. I think it’s very important that there is something current.  History is one thing, but the history only works if there is a something current, within this history. It is always these allegories or these bridges. The watch, in this product, is the hero and I think, if the product is not up there, everything else is secondary. The product has to be the key factor, because the product is what triggers and what, basically, makes the consumer buy. What was most important for us, back then, was to create a product that could relate to the past. But, at the same time, that was somehow contemporary, innovative and that was in its time, but at the same time, timeless and related to the past. That’s quite a difficult task, but I think we managed to do it, by getting a lot of inspiration from what was done back then, by the founder of the company, in the 18th century.

{audio:0:05:31} We spent a lot of time in archives, we spent a lot of time in auction houses and tried to understand what the key elements were. Then how to bring these key elements into a product that is building these bridges and is current, as I said, but also builds these bridges with the past. That’s the first thing, I would say.

{audio:0:05:57} From a product point of view, that was very important, for the watch. But also, after a few years, we starting producing automatons, which were elements that he was very famous for. They were animated mechanisms – back then, it was a writer, musician and draughtsman, that he mechanically animated, in the 18th century. With these ideas of something that is fully mechanical and animated, how can we translate that into something contemporary? We did this by creating automatons that told the time, purely mechanical. No technical aspect, in terms of the fact that there was nothing, apart from mechanical elements.

{audio:0:06:52} I think this was a very important for the product, but also for the story telling. The way that we pay tribute to the past, the way we explain our history, the way we position our history into the current time, is very important. First of all, by reviving traditional crafts that were used in the past, but were disappearing. That what also important for the product and the storytelling, as well. Then also, by creating this idea of a brand that travels, step by step, to link it back to the past, because he was travelling quite a lot, to different places, to promote the products and that’s what we did too.

{audio:0:07:50} We also brought back a museum, of historical pieces, that we built, that we used in roadshows, in events, to constantly refer to the past. There were a lot of elements in the marketing, in the product, but also within the whole philosophy. We were always thinking, what would he have done, back then and what would he do, today? Just because he was an innovator in the 18th century doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be an innovator in the 21st century. We always tried to keep this balance between the past, the present and the future.

{audio:0:08:33} Why do you think the Swiss do so well, specifically in building luxury watches, but also luxury more broadly?

{audio:0:08:44} I think, to a certain extent, the size of the country and the very high level of craftsmanship and capacity to create added value are very important points. We have mechanical, technical know-how. We have this philosophy of precision and perfection, additional to the fact that we have always been a very small country, so we just had to concentrate on developing and exporting, because our local market was always too small to cover the needs. Also, the fact that we were, to a certain extent, a neutral country, so when we were producing products or high-end products in general, people could appreciate it, without any other factors.

{audio:0:09:44} I think these are elements and then, don’t forget, back in 17th and 18th centuries, the Swiss watch industry developed to what it is today, also because there were political and social instabilities in the other countries, surrounding us. This meant that a lot of watch and jewelry makers, back then, fled to Switzerland and used their know-how to produce there. We talk of the Edict of Nantes, with the Huguenots, who fled from France and they were mostly jewelers. They established themselves in Geneva or elsewhere in Switzerland, because they were protected there.

{audio:0:10:21} They developed their know-how and, back then, when they fled to Geneva, there was a clerk, head of the Church, which was Calvin, which said there would be a very strict way of living. Dancing, singing, wearing jewelry, wearing expensive clothes, was forbidden. So these jewelers who fled from France, basically started to say, okay, we have the knowledge and know-how, in creating beautiful, small things. But jewelry is, more or less, forbidden, so what else can we do? They turned to watchmaking, because watchmaking was not something as it is today, such as an adornment; it was more a technical element that was used to tell the time because, obviously, people needed to have this information. This is how it developed in Geneva and, very quickly, they managed to create wonderful things, but didn’t have enough labor force, to further develop. So they turned to farmers, in the Swiss mountains. In the winter time, they couldn’t harvest and do other farming, agricultural work, so they asked them to start to produce components.

{audio:0:11:51} That’s why, today, you can see that the majority of centers of watchmaking are based in the Swiss French part, mostly in Geneva, but also in mountain regions, in the Swiss French part. That comes from historical evolution. We had, I would say, the know-how, the people, the environment, the organization and we also had a bit of history that played its role. Then the fact that we had this idea that we are capable of producing and promoting it, I think, makes a difference.

{audio:0:12:33} Can we take a step back now to the time that you were CEO, in a brand within Swatch Group. You mentioned how you were the youngest CEO in that industry. What was the biggest challenge you faced, as you stepped into that role?

{audio:0:12:53} I think the biggest challenge was to build a start-up within a big corporation. Obviously, the Swatch Group was and still is, the biggest watch producer in the world, with, I think, over 40 subsidiaries, 18 or 19 brands. It’s a big conglomerate.  When I took over Jacquets Droz, it was a company that was reduced to its minimum. There were, maybe, two or three people left, when I joined the company. It was a start-up, within a big corporation, which, I think, is the most challenging thing. You have access to certain markets, you have access to supply; you also have access to funds, if you need them. But on the other hand, you are too small to be able to, I would say, comply with the organization of a big corporation. You cannot go into a subsidiary and say, we want to go to China, because China has a big market; it just doesn’t work. Why? Because you will be in an organization with an allocation key, where you will have a brand manager, you will have dedicated people, an allocation key and that, for a small company, is just not bearable, without recognizing that you will make substantial losses, every year and that’s not something that we wanted.

{audio:0:14:35} So we had to build the company, which started at, let’s say $250,000, to a company, close to $40 million, ten years later, but the first five years we, basically, worked outside of the group. We worked outside of the boundaries, we worked outside of the organization. Obviously, we took advantage of certain elements, but we worked outside. That, I think, was the most challenging thing – how to play, in a smart way, between needing the independence and using the advantages of a big corporation. That creates a lot of tensions and frustrations, within an organization, because everybody likes to have a free spirit. It’s an interesting benchmark, but it creates a lot of challenges and a lot of tensions, within a big corporation.

{audio:0:15:48} What was your approach to that? You stepped into that role in 2001; what was your strategy?

{audio:0:15:55} The strategy was simple. It was to say, okay, what is the DNA of our brand? How can we transform it into something that, as I mentioned, creates the bridges, is current but, at the same time, is an up to date product, that can appeal to today’s customers and, to a certain extent, is also, from a design and emotional perspective, something that can appeal to the younger consumer. In other words, how can we be contemporary, but be traditional, at the same time? Then how to develop it, step by step.
{audio:0:16:37} Again, it’s a very product-driven industry led by creating innovative and unique products.

{audio:0:16:59} Clearly, the luxury watch industry is very product driven, like you said. It comes from the heritage, from the product spec, from the design. How did you adapt the design, to really carve out a place in the industry, to really capture that younger consumer’s mind?

{audio:0:17:33} By creating an exciting and innovative product. It’s very difficult to answer this question and  find answers through a lot of market studies; I just do it intuitively. I just design products that I like, that are appealing to me and, somehow, they are for other people too. You can’t build a start-up with market studies and market research, especially in our product. Often, creation is an undemocratic process. The more democratic you make the process, the less successful you are. Because then you end up doing what everybody else does and why should that work better with you than with established companies.

{audio;0:18:26} So we tried to, basically, make innovative, cool, well-made products, putting a lot of focus on traditional craftsmanship, on quality and on excellence. We were also in a period where the watch industry was in a very strong growth period. The industry itself, was growing, I would say, at a pace of 50% a year. We were in a good dynamic and we brought in very interesting and innovative products that were appealing. We grew, very quickly and, in 10 years, we opened up in about 250 stores, retailers. We built 10 of our own boutiques. We opened about 20 subsidiaries and we’ve grown from a three-man team, to a company of close to 100 people. Things went quite intuitively. Because the product was the hero and if everything is built around the product because the storytelling was already there. The history was there, there was a famous history around the founder of the company, which we could constantly relate to and use, to a certain extent, as a reference, not only when we create a product, but also when we did certain marketing activities.

{audio:0:20:10} Can we just explore that thought of yours of creation being a non-democratic process. How do you really think about innovation, in that sense?

{audio:0:20:24} I think, again, I can talk for an industry I know and watches are a very emotional product. It is a product that moved, initially, from an instrument to tell the time, into something which is more craftsmanship, status object, into today, I would say, more towards an emotional object of art. For me, watches, especially high-end watches, are an artistic expression, in themselves. Therefore, maybe I decided that the idea of creation is not democratic, because we create watches which have no utility, other than creating emotions and telling stories and, to a certain extent, a bit of a status symbol.

{audio:0:21:26} Again, that’s a very personal take on it. Why is it not very democratic? If you were to do any sort of market studies about watches, everybody will tell you, make a Rolex, because that’s what works. But create something different. You’ve got to dare to try new things. You’ve got to dare to create and make products that stick out. Because of that, you can’t make it democratic. It’s a creator’s approach.

{audio:0:22:12} Were you designing the watches back then, in 2001? Were you making them? What was the process that you had?

{audio:0:22:19} I created most of the watches and then, with the company growing, we had other designers that I worked with. But I always took care of the creation, for everything within the company – the whole brand identity, the whole product identity. For me, that was fundamental. You don’t create or build a brand, if you don’t create and design something unique. Then even design the marketing and the whole distribution because, for me, that’s all creative logic.

{audio:0:22:54} Initially, I designed the watches and then, over time, we grew to a larger team. I’m not a watchmaker, but I had a very good watchmaker and then we worked with different companies and different people, who helped us to develop, to manufacture different elements of the watch. We were a team of one watchmaker, me and somebody who was in charge of all the financial and commercial aspects and that’s how we started the company.

{audio:0:23:34} How did you build a brand identity around the product you were creating?

{audio:0:23:39} It was relative to the product. When going through the whole history of the brand and the archives, I found this watch that resembled, what we call the Grande Seconde, which is the reference product on which we built the whole company. It was a watch with off-centered hour and minute and off-centered small second. Which, in this case, was a big second, which is a very iconic product. This iconic product had this evident design of the eight. So what we did was, we did the whole storytelling around the eight. We created the eight pillars of the company; all the products were limited to eight pieces or 88 pieces. Luckily enough, back then, and still today, has a very strong meaning in Chinese, because eight means luck and 88 means a lot of luck and 888 means utmost luck, more or less.

{audio:0:24:43} The history on one side but, also, the eight became our pillars. Everything was around this logic. Whatever we did, it had to be related or it had to make sense with this logic of the eight. That’s how we, basically, built the story around it. You build a story, around a new brand, a little bit like when you throw a stone into the water. It creates these waves and that’s how we built it. We just built, step by step, one after the other, but always related to an identity of the product, but also to the whole philosophy that made sense to us.

{audio:0:25:29} Let’s talk about storytelling. You’ve gone through the archives, you’ve noticed a certain design interest or something that piques your interest in the archives, you build a new product and you start building this brand identity. How do start really communicating this story in your messaging, especially to young consumers, today?

{audio:0:25:53} You always start with the early adopters. I think, in most of the industry, when you start out with a company, especially in a product-oriented company, you go to the early adopters. The early adopters are collectors, so you start to work with the collectors. Obviously, we start with the retailers, which is your distribution environment and through the retailers, you get in touch with the collectors. Back then, there was also the emergence of blogs and the internet. For us, this was a big opportunity, because we managed to get in contact with very important blogs, with whom we then, from virtual, went to physical. We created events and we went to see them and to explain. We did a lot of, what I would say, convincing the collector first. They did a lot of direct marketing, whether that’s with retailers, collectors, but also the specialized press. It was mainly building the momentum and taking the first step in the community. You build the brand through the community. Once the community starts to talk about it, in a positive way, and they see what you are doing is genuine, it’s well done, there’s a lot of value for money and it’s highly crafted, then they start to talk amongst themselves. That’s how you build. The more you build, the more you, obviously, have means, which you can then focus into building momentum with the younger consumer.

{audio:0:27:42} Again, when we talk about luxury watches, it’s often something that is not so easily accessible for a younger audience. You can’t really segment that much, when you start. After a while, you can but, at the beginning, you go for the first adopters, the early adopters, which are mainly collectors. Most of the collectors are a bit older, even if there are a few young ones. You can’t really profile them from the age perspective, because it’s a passion they have. Then when you build a certain momentum within this community, or through specific retailers – we started to work with concept stores, like Collette, or others. We started to work with young architects, designers, by backing them up, collaborating with them and then we started to touch a younger public demographic. It’s something that evolves and grows, over time. It’s not something you can really jump into, unless you have a lot of financial means and you can heavily invest in building the community.

{audio:0:29:05} We built this company – except year one to year three, where we were actually non-profitable – where we were profitable every year. So we financed our development by ourselves, by the company itself. Even being part of the biggest watch group, we always had this, I would say, aim and obligation to be profitable and to be able to be self-sustainable.

{audio:0:29:40} What was the messaging and pitch to those early adopters, those collectors?

{audio:0:29:49} We gave them exclusivity, first of all, because we did limited editions; sometimes eight pieces, sometimes unique pieces. We did a lot of unique, one of a kind pieces. We gave lots of value, through the craftsmanship, because we invested heavily into recreating traditional crafts, such as full fire enameling or other techniques, which are very traditional crafts, that were used back in the 18th and 19th century and were, basically, non-existent.

{audio:0:30:24} So we revived these crafts, we found craftsmen, who were often the last one of a generation of craftsmen and we gave them sufficient work so that they could continue working, but could also start to train some younger people to continue the craft. We gave that to the watch a lot of craftsmanship and collectors, obviously, loved that. When you are a watch collector, you have a beautiful product, but you also have a product that gives you more value, or more craftsmanship than the majority of our competition offered and you start to collect the watches.

{audio:0:31:04} All this by being exclusive and, at the same time, very available. At the end of the day, they want to see somebody behind the company. At the beginning, when you build a company like that, I would say that the personalization of the company is very important, with these kind of products. I travelled 250 days a year, going from one event to the other, meeting one collector after another to make them loyal to the company. Most of our watches, aim build this collector’s mentality. Often, people own five, 10, 15 watches and have big collections, because every product was a bit different; every product was unique. Every product had a lot of value and they became very loyal to the brand. That was a lot of investment, a lot of travelling, a lot of convincing. It’s almost as if you are preaching.

{audio:0:32:16} Getting back to your marketing question, at the beginning, you go to the early adopters, the ones which are open and interested and you preach your message and try to convince them. Not just by marketing, but by going to the product. For these people, if the product is not good, they don’t care about the marketing message. You build like this and the more you build trust, the better loyalty you will have. You can then go into advertising, you can then go into social media, into retail. But you can only do this, when you have substantial means to do so. You’ve got to build it first, step by step.

{audio:0:33:09} How did the message and communication change for those mainstream adopters or even the younger consumers, compared to those early collector adopters?

{audio:0:33:23} It was two things. We created a club of collectors. The ones who were part of it had the opportunity to buy very specific pieces before everybody else, which we knew were often pieces which were one-offs. Basically, they had an opportunity to get products they couldn’t buy somewhere, still at an affordable price, because then it really got collector’s value. We also started to support our watches on the secondary market. Whenever watches came up at auctions, we also helped and supported the price of these watches. This then made people understand that their watches had second market value. That was also a marketing instrument that we used. That was more with the traditional, early adopters and people were starting to talk about the brand. It’s a cool design; it’s well-made. It also keeps its value and it’s a good investment. It’s highly crafted. This was the word that spread, throughout the collector’s community and we built that very well.

{audio:0:34:44} Then we loyalized the collectors. We invited them to discover certain crafts, to even try the crafts themselves. There was a whole lot of experience marketing that we built, with this community. With the money we generated, to a certain extent, with this community, we also started to invest into a much younger consumer. We focused on very product sensitive communities, first, because it’s a very strong and aesthetic product, so we went to people in creative industries, such as architects, designers, photographers and so on.

{audio:0:35:30} How do we tackle them? By going into specific, targeted advertising; by participating in specific fairs, art fairs or other things. By building a retail network or distribution channel that focused on this kind of people, such as the Collettes, the LUISAVIAROMAs, the Lane Crawfords of this world, which are much more targeted to this group, and started to lock that target, as well.

{audio:0:36:13} Additionally, to create visibility, we started with our own retail network and that really made a big difference. When we started to have our own retail, especially in Asia, Macau and Hong Kong, suddenly there, we were considered as a serious actor. For a lot of independent and smaller brands, people can see that they come and go, but once you have good street-level credibility, it makes quite a difference. We moved up quite quickly; it was like a jump to another level.

{audio:0:37:02} I want to talk about emotionalizing a product. We talked, briefly, about this creative process and design of the product and the intuition involved, especially in the luxury watch space. How do you then emotionalize that? How do you drive that thinking about the feeling that you are going to give to that end consumer?

{audio:0:37:26} You get a trigger for those emotions. We’re living in a more and more digital and technological environment, so lots of people are afraid of the speed of change. I think you can emotionalize what we did, through this idea of something anachronic, crafted, hand-made, where there is still the human touch in the product. I think you can do a lot related to emotion around this, by triggering these elements. There’s somebody who spends one month to mix some colors, to find the perfect color, for your dial. Or who spends 50 hours just to paint something on your dial. We did the whole emotionalizing through the storytelling. To enhance this, we invited key press, key retailers, key clients, to experiment, to really put themselves in the environment of learning these crafts, spending time with these people who craft the product. People started to talk about it in a very positive way and that created, I would say, quite a lot of awareness.

{audio:0:38:58} Then we also started to produce watches, based on stories. For example, we had one customer who said that he loved our watches, but he had a love/hate affair with time. He said he loved time, because he was passionate about watchmaking and passionate about artisanship, about tradition, about craftsmanship, the level of perfection that goes in such a product. But at the same, time was something that he couldn’t touch, that flows through his hand, like sand or water. He couldn’t touch it, get a grip on it and it just goes away. He wanted a watch that gives me the impression I can escape time.

{audio:0:39:55} We said, okay; that’s an interesting challenge. We came up with a watch that was quite successful, that only had one hand and, basically, gave you the indication of time, very precisely, but on 24 hours. So it was impossible to know exact time it was, to more than about five to 10 minutes. We did this, because we wanted to give him his impression, first of all, that on a watch, with 24 hours, you have the impression that time already goes twice as slow as on a normal watch, with 12 hours. When you can’t exactly see the time, you lose the notion of urgency and that things have to go quickly and fast. That’s what we managed to do. We did this watch with the whole storytelling around it – a watch that gives you time, but allows you to escape it. Basically, you extended time. It’s like breathing; it’s something that makes you lose yourself, for a certain period of time.

{audio:0:41:03} Again, through the product, we started to produce very specific time indications or complications, that people could relate to. That’s how we build; we built the story through the product. Because telling a story like, well, we date back to the 17th century, and the founder, in 1721 started the company – it’s interesting, but it’s not sufficient. We wanted that each and every product had a story, had an emotion, had a craft and a know-how, that made it unique. Then it became something very personal to the customer. Then we started to produce specific watches for customers. We had an order, from one client, who said, “I want you to develop something for me, that’s only for me.” We did a unique piece, for him and there were five others, for his family, for his kids. We not only sold the six watches, but he had everything. We gave him all the technical plans; he had the whole development, in a box, that we delivered to him. He had all the sketches, all the drawings, all the constructive work, all the components. There was a stock of components, for him, for each element, to make sure that he could service the watches efficiently. He bought the whole philosophy, with it. We filmed a lot of the moments we spent brainstorming about how we could this watch. He didn’t just buy a product; he bought a part of our own history. A part of us. I think that’s why I say that it was very interesting that that is something you can do in this niche, smaller brands, because you can really tell stories.

{audio:0:43:26} I then took care of another brand for 10 years, Romain Jerome, where it was mostly built on storytelling. What we did is, we did watches with video games from the seventies and eighties. Why? Because we understood that people today, they want to have products which help them reminisce. People say that we are crazy to do $20,000 watches, with a reference to video games from the seventies, but we were extremely successful with that, because people today, they always want to be able to be reminded of beautiful moments of their life. I think a watch is a fantastic element, to create these emotional links.

{audio:0:44:25} When you were 15 and you played video games and you didn’t care about anything, because you didn’t need to care about anything. You didn’t have a business, a family, mortgage. That’s what we tried to do. It’s storytelling, to create emotions where people, actually, through the watch or through the product, get good thoughts or feelings.

{audio:0:44:56} What were the biggest lessons you learned, in selling and distributing those high-end watches?

{audio:0:45:06} I learned that you cannot please everybody. By trying to please everybody, you are often very unsuccessful. Especially when you start as a company. I’ll give you another example. We did very provocative watches. We did watches with the Icelandic volcano that went up, about 10 years back. We integrated elements of this volcano and sold one watch to a pilot of an aircraft. I met him at an event and he said, this is the most important watch for me. I said that it didn’t make a lot of sense to me, as he’d obviously suffered a lot from this situation back then. He said, “Yes, but at the same time, I was grounded and by being grounded at the airport, that’s where I met my future wife. Somehow, this moment changed my life and I want to have something that reminds me of this very strong and very particular moment.”

{audio:0:46:33} It was the same when we did a $200,000 Pokémon watch, for Romain Jerome. Who will buy a $200,000 Pokémon watch? Nobody, technically speaking. So what I learned is, it’s not the watch. It’s the feeling. There are no limits the moment you do things respectfully, genuinely and by giving a lot of value to it. I’m not just talking about value, in terms of money, but what you give to the product makes a lot of difference. What I learned was, that there is no limit to creativity or ideas. You’ve just got to believe in what you do and go all the way. Don’t listen, too much, to what people tell you.

{audio:0:47:42} What about around product? In your experience of designing high-end products, what have you learned about product design and the intuition and creative approach to building new products?

{audio:0:48:01} That’s a good question. What did I learn? I think I just learnt to trust myself. I used to listen much more, in the past and I used to be much more careful and I used to dare much less. It doesn’t mean that today I make things that are much crazier, but I trust myself more today, than in the past. I also understand that there are a lot of things that I didn’t do or didn’t design, because I was listening to people. I understood that, whenever I was listening, I wasn’t really successful, because I forced myself to believe something I didn’t necessarily below. It’s a difficult question to answer, but I think it’s a lot about self-confidence and self-trust.

{audio:0:49:08} How do you do that when you’re a young guy? You mentioned that you were a pretty young CEO, had to go on that journey at a young age. How did you trust yourself, at that stage? How would you advise young people to trust themselves, in that creative process?

{audio:0:49:21} The good thing is, my biggest strength was that nobody really cared about it. When you’re a company that makes not a 1000th of a percent of the turnover of the big group you’re in, at the end of the day, we were, a little bit, the ones that people were laughing at. Let them occupy themselves. It was not important. A lot of these ideas have then been taken by other companies of the group. I think a lot more companies should have these creative laboratories, where people try different things. By trying, by innovating, by daring, you actually push boundaries. These boundaries can be very well used in other companies in the group, as well.

{audio:0:50:26} I think the fact that nobody really cared, just pushed us to be more daring, more innovative, back then. By doing so, suddenly, we were refreshing, we were different, we were unique and, therefore, we were interesting. We paid a lot of attention to the fact that, whatever we did, we did it by respecting the brand’s traditions, and that of our competitors. By making it at least as good as all of them, but different.

{audio:0:51:07} As you moved to lead a large company, how did you maintain that creative, daring environment, for others?

{audio:0:51:20} First of all, by not changing the mentality too much. But also, creating a smart mix, in terms of the organization, of creative and structured people. Often these are not the same kind of personalities. By always keeping this kind of daring element and give them a lot of autonomy, to bring out ideas. By creating, I would say, this company culture of open, innovative and creative environment. If you create such an organization, it creates a feeling and people are more likely to bring their daring ideas which, often, may not seem to have any use, in a direct sense, but then they also open your mind. You need to create an open-minded, innovative and daring working environment.

{audio:0:52:38} But then again, in exchange, we hired people to ultra-structure, ultra-organize, to compensate. The whole company always grows by keeping to the pillars of our organization and stability that was also very important.

{audio:0:53:01} How did you lead that innovation and creative culture, from the top? Did you codify anything? Did you have certain techniques that you’d use, to really encourage people to think a certain way or behave a certain way?

{audio:0:53:16.} I tried to create spaces and moments in the week, in the working area, in the working process, where we just brainstormed about different things and brought up themes which were totally different. I tried to create spaces to breathe, where people were, suddenly, taken away from their daily routine, their daily obligations, their daily workspace. We did a lot of off-site things. I tried to create these moments of a relaxed, creative attitude. I often took my people who worked on the development, to art fairs, to exhibitions and things like that, to open their vision on different things.

{audio:0:54:16} We invited architect, artists or other people, to talk about how they see the products. Whenever we had customers who happened to be from the creative environment, we often invited them, also, to just talk about how they work and how they see things. That was very refreshing for everybody.

{audio:0:54:42} Is there anything else that you, in your career, leading this luxury watch business, that you think is very important for younger people to understand, in moving to this type of industry or product-focused industry?

{audio:0:55:02} I learnt, obviously, a lot of things and I’m continuing to learn, because today, I work for a lot of companies, as a consultant. I enjoy this a lot, because I can move between companies, I can move between cultures, philosophies and identities. I work for companies in Russia, I work for companies in Japan, I work for companies in Europe, in Switzerland, mainly. I, basically, help them with strategy, with creating new identities, with creating new products, with tackling new customers and new distribution channels.

{audio:0:55:42} There is a lot about innovation and creation, so I learn every day, because I learn from the environment. I learn from the people and from the history of some of my clients. It’s very difficult for me to say what sort of advice I would give, but I think you should always keep young at heart, keep an open spirit. Always be curious about things going on. Never be shy of questioning, of pushing certain rules or even regulations, always in a positive way. You are often in corporate environments where rebellious attitudes are not the most welcome. But I think, if you can have this kind of mix between what you have to do and, at the same time, always question yourself, always keep an open mind. I think, to a certain extent, remain positive, in a very joyful and positive way.

{audio:0:57:00} The only advice that I can give to everyone is, always keep your mind open. Always keep this creative, joyful mind, because that’s what helps you to see things differently.

{audio:0:57:18} When you’re looking at hiring someone, or if you are analyzing someone’s creativity or how innovative they are, what characteristics would you be looking for, in someone?

{audio:0:57:36} That’s also a very difficult question. I think it’s more about the attitude of the person. It’s more about the feeling, actually. Obviously, you can have experience, which helps a lot in the decision making. But at the end of the day, it’s the personality, the attitude, that makes the difference.

{audio:0:58:07} You have to have a mix. You can’t have just creative people. You’ve got to combine more structured and organized people, with people who are maybe less organized, less structured, more innovative in their thinking. The most important thing is to create a harmony between these two environments which are not necessarily the easiest to combine but, at the same time, are not so different from each other. I think it’s the nurturing thing. Again, if I look at hiring people, it’s a lot about the personality. I always took the risk to hire people who were off the beaten track. Sometimes I was very successful. Sometimes they made the difference and sometimes they created a lot of complexities. It is a risk. But I think, as an entrepreneur, which I consider myself to be, you have got to take risks; you have got to dare and try things. You’ve got to be open, listen, sensitive to what’s going on around you, because that is where the opportunities come.

{audio:0:59:23} I just want to pick up on one phrase that I think you use a lot, which I find interesting, which is to dare, or daring. Is that how you would describe or define innovation, or creativity?

{audio:0:59:40} Yes and no. Obviously, innovation is, to a certain extent, often pushing boundaries. Pushing boundaries is something that doesn’t come naturally because it’s something that doesn’t please everybody. Humans are animals of habit. Pushing boundaries means you have to go out of your comfort zone. Going out of your comfort zone is a very daring thing, for a lot of people. I think it’s maybe more my wording but what I mean, in reality, is that you just constantly question the environmental elements of whatever you are in, and just try to either benchmark outside, with other industries, other environments, other elements, or by simply going to the idea of constantly questioning whatever is there.

{audio:1:01:01} Manuel, thank you very much for your time.

Swatch Group: Swiss Luxury Watchmaking

The founding story and heritage of Swatch's Jacquet Droz brand

How Jacquet Droz emotionalized and curated stories about watch lines

The essence of product-led design and growth for luxury watches

Daring to be different as a luxury watchmaker

Swatch Group: Swiss Luxury Watchmaking

Former CEO at Jacquet Droz, Swatch Group

inpractise.com/articles/swatch-jacques-droz-luxury-watches

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Swatch Group: Swiss Luxury Watchmaking(March 29, 2020)

Manuel Emch

Former CEO at Jacquet Droz, Swatch Group

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Manuel Emch

Former CEO at Jacquet Droz, Swatch Group

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Swatch Group: Swiss Luxury Watchmaking(March 29, 2020)