Do you think that, given our understanding of the usage of these solutions among tradespeople, the competition between Visma, SmartCraft, and others is intense? Or is the real story about how large a portion of the market still uses traditional methods like pen, paper, and Excel? Has that changed in recent years?

Currently, Cordel has a robust system, and customers are somewhat stuck because they can't find a replacement. Cordel's strategy seems to be maintaining as many plumbers as possible while launching SmartCraft Sparks for electricians. They aim to win electricians while developing similar functionality for plumbers. I don't think it will be long before you see something like SmartCraft Water. Contracting Works are doing the opposite by maintaining their customer base first and then entering the plumber market. Both are trying to penetrate all markets, but it will be a struggle to win over the market from either of them.

Maybe just thinking about pricing in terms of the most important debates while you were there. Was it per seat versus per project, or trying to make it revenue-linked? What was the major philosophy around pricing?

The pricing strategy in SmartCraft was a bit divided. For example, Bygglet, the biggest Swedish company, was more aggressive with pricing. In Cordel, the situation was different because the customer stickiness was so high, making it difficult to replace Cordel. They have been implementing significant price increases, making Cordel a really expensive system now. In Bygglet, it was more about market positioning to gain a larger market share. In Norway, Cordel was more of a "milking cow," if I may say so, and it still is.

So it sounds like Cordel and Visma had the same philosophy for that market because their user bases were strong for their respective products. Is that fair to say? They never competed on price? They just maintained high prices?

Yes, they never competed on price. When it came to any venue, Cordel and Visma Contracting stood side by side, selling together. We almost never switched customers from Visma Contracting, and we didn't lose to Visma Contracting either. There was no churn either way.