Interview Transcript

Managers sometimes struggle with maintaining a friendship, getting on with their direct reports, and being a leader. How do you manage that dynamic?

Good question. It’s a fine line, but it’s a really important line. People need to realise you have high expectations and you’re not going to let them off the hook because you smile a lot. For example, if people miss their goals and there isn’t a good reason, you will cut their bonus. You won’t say, “Ah, never mind, you can still have your full bonus.” If people seriously underperform, you will replace them. If you don’t think they’re fixable. I think knowing there is still a line and you shouldn’t take friendship for granted a really important one.

There’s a carrot and stick in all situations, and people need to know the stick does exist, but there’s also the carrot of regularly calling out people who go above and beyond to do something amazing. Showing appreciation when people do a good job, even if it’s just public praise, or it could be a pay rise, a promotion, or whatever — just setting high standards.

A phrase I used to say a lot was, “Never be satisfied.” Don’t wait until someone else raises the bar, raise the bar on yourself. One of our team is a great artist, and he did this amazing logo on the wall of the boardroom that said, “Never be satisfied.” People started ending emails with, “Never be satisfied.” Anecdotes started getting told, “So-and-so did this, but we think we can do better.” It’s getting people to raise the bar on themselves because it’s just the way we do things around here. There’s a floor, you don’t cross it, the stick exists, but as much as possible, get people to want to show off and have fun by raising the bar on themselves.

Sign up to test our content quality with a free sample of 50+ interviews