Interview Transcript

How did you have those difficult conversations? Firing, specifically the old guard but, more broadly, those people in the early days?

There are two very, very important things that always work for me. Number one, I always did it myself. I talked to the people. Not HR. I would say, from a certain level upwards, whenever we had to separate from someone, I did it myself, but I always took a witness with me. I always had someone that I trusted, with me in such meetings. This was for two reasons. Firstly, for the legal reasons; what has really been talked about and discussed? You cannot do that one on one. Unfortunately, you have to have a witness. For me, it was important to have someone there that could later say, if things turned sour, this is not how it was communicated. But the second thing, which was much more important, was that if, in such a conversation, which you never know how it’s going to end – it could end up with someone threatening you or could have a complete breakdown in tears, could start begging for the job – that you have someone with you, that could be either correcting, a little bit, of what you say, softening it or making it clearer. Also, guiding you a little bit, into a different direction, if that person feels that you are running a bit off the beaten track and a bit off what needs to be communicated.

Of course, that function can only be taken over by people that you, as a CEO, really trust. Also, the sense that that person is not going to talk about this, outside, how this meeting went. But for me, it was always important, after the meeting was done, that someone was sitting there, telling me, okay, I would have done this different from how you did and okay or not okay. I always needed to have someone who could, later, tell me how it went. That worked really well. Unfortunately, I had to separate from quite a number of people in my business career. There is only one case, of someone who never, ever talked to me again, after that. All the others, I could meet today, have a glass of beer or wine with them and could talk to them, with no problem at all.

It’s quite important to do it yourself but it’s also important to have someone with you, that could help you a little bit, if you are going the wrong way.

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