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{audio:0:00:12} Torsten, before we dive into a few questions that relate to your deepest areas of career experience. Could you tell us what you’ve been up to for the past few decades?

{audio:0:00:20} I benefited from switching perspectives a few times. The red line through my professional career is communications. I started out as a journalist covering Silicon Valley. Then I switched sides and went into the corporate environment. Worked for the software company SAP and built their internal communications department. That was the first switch of perspectives. Covering the IT sector, but then being part of it. Then after ten years, I decided to make another career move. Took a break, sorted myself out and figured out what is the most likely next step? Ended up doing communications consulting around mergers and acquisitions. Restructuring. Did that for eight years. That, again, was a switch in perspectives in terms of communications. It was a core issue, but I was helping others by advising them. Which, in a way, if you do internal communications as I did at SAP, that’s a big part of your job always. Then about two years ago, I was recruited to join the European Central Bank to head their internal communications, as well as their external engagement division. Which I found really intriguing, because until the headhunter called, I actually hadn’t considered public sector. I believe in Europe, so to say, I was immediately intrigued, and I was really lucky to end up with a job. This was another switch in perspectives, the red line is communications. Advising others on how to do communications and how to improve their skills. Always from a different perspective. Who knows? Maybe there is another perspective I will take down the road.

{audio:0:02:10} Torsten, having been exposed to many different approaches to leadership development in different environments. How do you feel about the way communication is perceived/approached; the importance placed on communication skills in traditional leadership development?

{audio:0:02:35} It’s interesting. If you look at a leadership position and obviously, starting with the chairman or the CEO of a company, what is his/her job? It’s communications. Then it’s communications and then it’s communications. If you cut across all of the stakeholder groups that I need to be mindful of and communicate with, it starts internally with rallying, motivating, inspiring your own team. Be it the board that you have to manage or be it that larger employee base. No matter what company you’re in. Can you lead people in the direction? That’s not to say, I give you operational instructions, but can I paint the vision, share my values and give direction to people? That’s really what your job is. You then need to apply that to the outside. You will always have customers that you need to communicate with. There’s always the media. There’s social media these days. The immediate communications with the outside world. Not through the transmission mechanism of the media. It becomes, as we all know, a lot more important and as we also know, there are a lot of politicians that skip over the media these days. You need to learn all of these mechanisms and understand them. I find it very interesting that if you look at studies being done, interviews of CEOs and people in c-level, so “chief” positions and ask them about their experience about climbing the corporate ladder or organizational ladder.

{audio:0:04:31} Ending up in positions of responsibility. What they all unanimously tell you what they underestimate is how difficult the job of communications is, how critical it is, how important it is, how much time it takes. What does that mean? It means that it’s a lifelong learning process. Communication is never finished. You can always get better. We can always practice and rehearse and train. That really is something that I would recommend to anybody in a leadership position, is to continually focus on this. I worked for many years with Henning Kagermann, the CEO of SAP at the time I was leading internal communications. I often cite him as a really good example because he had some tremendous discipline. Every quarter when we had quarterly announcements or results, he would take the time and engage with an advisor. Go through the Q&A about the financials. Practice, practice his message. Make sure that he knew what he was talking about. He was very good at all of the numbers but throwing a bunch of numbers at you can confuse the audience really quickly. It’s been selective. It’s being on-message. It’s being targeted. It takes a lot of practice. It takes a lot of preparation. One of the common mistakes that a lot of leaders still have is, “I know what I’m doing. I’m confident. I can go to this situation and make the best out of it.” It takes a lot more than that. I do think that it takes a lot of preparation and practice. You can continuously do that no matter what part of your career you’re in.

{audio:0:06:28} Why is this so difficult?

{audio:0:06:29} Why is communications difficult? It takes discipline on a lot of levels. Obviously, I like when I do media training, like so many others in that field, I like to put people in front of a camera. Why? If you see yourself, you see all the different levels that need to come together. My words now matter, the way I move, my facial expression, my nervous habits. There are a lot of different things that we do subconsciously that I need to be aware of, so that I don’t do it in a TV interview. What I’m trying to say is there are a lot of things that have to come together in order to really be on-message and make sense and be believable. It’s a matter of total performance, the words my body and what I say, but also, am I on-message? Do I have a clear message to relate to my audience? Do I know who I’m talking to? Obviously, right now, I’m talking to a computer screen. That’s a very different situation even though I can see you from having 20 people, 50 people, or 5,000 people in front of you. It all starts with imagining the situation and preparing for that. Making sure that I know the message. Also, making sure that I’m being myself. I relate my values. I relate a clear message. I’m authentic. I don’t spin the story. All of these things matter in a very condensed time. Television, you get 20 seconds, 10 seconds. That soundbite that the television newscaster likes to use as a part in the segment that they’re producing about whatever issue it is. It all comes down to that 20 seconds. That needs to fit. It takes a tremendous amount of preparation and self-discipline to get there and make it work for yourself.

{audio:0:08:45} I’m hearing in a number of ways, Torsten, an invitation to reflect on this dimension of self-knowledge. You mentioned the importance of authenticity. Maybe in part this difficulty, it really involves as a leader being aware of yourself and as we all know, that can be quite a challenging process to come into knowledge of one’s instincts, especially unconscious instincts.

{audio:0:09:18} Especially in times of crisis or times of stress. Even the people that do take time and prepare, what if something happens from the time you prepare to the time you get in front of an audience? Can you develop that self-discipline to say “whatever just happened threw me off track and made me emotional” has to wait because I have an important speech to give? That self-consciousness is really important. There are lots of studies being done on the chemistry. I’m not an expert on this, but certainly did my reading about it. The chemical reaction inside all of us and how it influences us and how we can basically through some body movements, stretching, standing upright and so forth, build up the right chemistry level in your body, so that you actually support what you say by the way you appear in front of an audience. All of these things matter incredibly. Yes, I completely agree that becoming aware of yourself and not just the words, but your entire body language is extremely important. Speaking of words, generally, there are a lot of people that are really eloquent, but one recommendation I have for every leader is, get your confidant. Get your person that you actually allow to give you advice.
{audio:0:11:02} We all benefit from advice, no matter how high up in the hierarchy we are. Whether we’re in politics or in the courtroom or in the public sector, it doesn’t really matter. What we all can benefit from is that advice from somebody that you trust that you let in, so to say. To say, “Listen to me and then afterwards tell me what you think, how I come across? What can I improve?” That person is incredibly important. It’s something that I’ve told many leaders once you’re in that position of having to guide the communications of an entire company or organization. Find that person that you trust, ideally your head of corporate communications. It can be somebody else in the organization that you can take advice from and listen to. I do think that people that fail in times of crisis, they stop listening to others and they stop that reflection process on, am I effective? Am I getting a message across or not?

{audio:0:12:15} On that subject of self-understanding and being able to tap into a degree of authenticity. Torsten, you mentioned very clearly the role of a confidant or a trusted advisor. You mentioned a little earlier, the power of practice and having that discipline. Perhaps practicing in front of an audience, in front of a TV screen. What other ways have you found powerful for leaders or people in positions of responsibility to develop their self-awareness and go through what is often quite a difficult and painful process?

{audio:0:12:54} It only starts when we’re ready. It is what I just outlined, it's to prepare and rehearse, but then also do a debrief. Ask questions, what worked, what didn’t? Look at yourself. Personally, I have a hard time taking a look at myself on video. It’s not easy for everybody because they become very self-conscious, but it is what it takes. Important for you to become aware of how you come across and ways you can improve. Anything from do I control my hands like I do? As you can see, I like to move around, I like to twitch. That is fine. Sometimes it also creates this notion of nervousness. Not self-confidence. That’s what it takes. Is to also reflect on past performances. Just like now, I should probably take a look at whatever we record and take into heart what I like about it and what I don’t. If I do that with other people, I don’t build in my own biases about how I perceive myself. Allow somebody else to say, “There is part that really works, there is a part we need to work on.” Your body language and your message or what you say. Also, length, do you get a message across? Do you repeat it three times in different words? How do you relay the message to people? That goes back to preparedness. Are you clear? How many people rely on speech writers? What is the process you engage in with your speech writer? Do you give them notes? Do you give them headlines? Do you bother at all to talk to your speech writer and help them get on to paper and into a speech what you actually need to get across? That whole process is time-consuming. It requires time. One thing I would always like to point out to people, a PowerPoint is not a speech. A PowerPoint is a visual aid. Honestly, let’s forget all of that. It’s what you say to an audience or to a camera and how you come across and how you put it into words, that really is what matters. Your visual aids, your pictures and your graphics. They come later. There’s a lot of time and energy going into creating nice charts and nice PowerPoints. They matter, but they’re not your message. It’s not you. The words that you relay are actually what matters a lot more.

{audio:0:15:50} How would you summarize the pillars of effective leadership communication?

{audio:0:16:12} It’s clarity. It’s integrity. Authenticity. It’s telling the truth, basically. Starting with the latter, unfortunately, we’re living in an environment where that obviously doesn’t seem to matter anymore. Even in this current situation right now, there are a lot of facts and there is a lot of fiction. There are a lot of poor messages being distributed. Without going too much into the pandemic situation that we’re in, unfortunately, from the local environment, there’s a huge tendency to make up your reality. That doesn’t count for you, it doesn’t work for you. It will eventually break down. That honesty, that telling the truth, specifically in a time of crisis. A time of crisis is not a time we start spinning the story or making it into something that it isn’t. You have to tell the truth. Of course, there is a way to frame the truth. You can say it very directly. You can say it in a very displeasing way. You can say it in a nice way, but it still needs to be the truth and it still needs to be based on facts. That’s basically lesson number one. If you do tell the truth, I think the other ingredients that I mentioned. The integrity, the values that you hold close to your heart, being authentic and honest will come through because if you’re guided by facts and telling the truth, then you’re yourself. That’s actually what matters the most.

{audio:0:18:07} If I put myself in the shoes of a leader where I am looking to communicate through multiple layers of a hierarchy. What are the typical challenges that I would face in reaching people and in crafting a message that is appropriate for the board, as well as for the front lines?

{audio:0:18:46} Specifically the last part of that question is very important. Communications is translation, not in terms of I’m translating my words into another language. Translation in the sense of can I find a metaphor, a good story, an example to illustrate what I’m saying? Often, things are very complicated. Specifically, in a corporate environment, or the environment that I’m working in when you talk about more into policy, economics. It takes a lot of education, a lot of context, a lot of background to make yourself understood. A huge ingredient that’s very helpful is to find these illustrative examples and relate it to people’s reality. That’s very key. Now, generally, as you know, you get a lot of support as a CEO of a company or as a corporate leader generally. The corporate communications departments are there to assist you in this job. To craft the message. To get it onto paper. To put it into pictures, metaphors, examples that you can relate to people. The difficulty with hierarchies is, do you own the message, and do you carry it forward the way it was agreed? Why are you starting to put your own spin on it? How many times has it happened that a board agrees on a particular step and explains the reason and spells it out in some clear message? Then it gets a couple of hierarchy levels down and people start saying, “I disagree with that. Let me tell you why.” Does that help you as a leader? Likely not. It actually makes you pretty vulnerable because you start interpreting the decisions of others.

{audio:0:20:55} Make it your own and you become basically then the one that also has to explain why you disagree and why you don’t go along with it. It goes back to discipline. Does an organization provide the hierarchy levels with the documents and the messages that you need, the information you need to carry forward the message based on decisions that have been taken? Or are you left alone? I think generally in my experience, there are a lot more companies can do in terms of the timeliness of providing that information to me as somebody who is a couple of layers down in the hierarchy, still has to talk to a team and make sense to them. The layering of that information, because we all are different. Some people like all the details. Ready everything. Then they can best relay the message to others. Others just want the headlines. They do stick to the message, but they don’t want to be getting lost in the details. The layering of the message. Can I give people headlines? Can I provide a bit more details? Can I give all details that there are depending on the type of information consumption that I have as a leader in the hierarchy? Generally, I think a lot of organizations can still improve.

{audio:0:22:28} There’s been lots of progress made over the years that I’ve been in the communications business. I think generally, as organizations tick, there is still a lot to be done. One aspect to keep in mind, the communications environment obviously changes due to social media. The pace of social media forces us to step it up generally within our organization. Our communications discipline. Why? Social media is immediate. I can put out a message, a Tweet, a post to a lot of people really quickly. If it takes ages for the organization to respond to it, in case it’s not correct or it just begs for commentary around it, you need to provide color around it. It can cause a lot of damage. I think social media shows to a large degree the function is in the slow pace of organizations. How many people have to be conferred with and discussed with before you come to a consensus and actually respond and react? I think organizations need to start with social media and the immediacy and the pace that it has in order to really look at their processes. At some point, also maybe decide to have a much shorter escalation path within an organization, so we don’t discuss with everybody before you respond, but you have a clear chain of command of people, of fewer people, so you can actually respond and react much faster. That’s what it takes these days. A post and Tweets are immediate. They’re global. You do need to be able to respond quickly. You cannot let it go because it mushrooms so quickly these days that you’re forced to react. I think generally organizations need to rethink how they actually get messages crafted faster and get it out to the audience in a much more effective and efficient manner.

{audio:0:24:43} On this element of storytelling, Torsten, how useful is it from the perspective of a leader to really study the pillars of great storytelling?

{audio:0:25:00} Very effective. You already gave the answer in the question. What I said earlier about finding the metaphors in the pictures, in the illustrations that allow you to make a point and make a certain amount of information relatable to people. That’s very effective communication. The more you know about good storytelling, the structure of a story, the catharsis in a story, the crisis. What it means and how we learn from that? It all helps.

It should be part of your toolbox. Part of the toolbox that I mentioned in the beginning. That you constantly need to hone and rehearse and always get better at. It’s part of this. When I talk frequently about what’s your message? What do you want to get across? The tendency is to think in headlines. Below that headline also needs the explanation. The metaphor and the story. The narrative that I can use to relate whatever I want to get across to my reality, to the audience’s reality. What’s very powerful is if you talk about yourself. Right now, that we’re all in the same boat. Meaning, we’re in a pandemic situation, a lot of countries are in lockdown. We’re experiencing new ways of working together. Keeping virtual teams intact. Maintaining social contact as much as possible. I find it incredibly powerful if leaders in high levels sit down with employees and talk about their own worries in this situation. If you become relatable. If you close the distance between you as somebody who is in a high position with a lot of responsibilities and the people that you actually want to inspire and give direction to. That’s done by telling a good story and by sharing your own emotions. Nothing is as powerful as being honest with your own situation.

{audio:0:27:25} If you were to suggest from your very broad experience what some import principles are that you’ve taken away from observing people communicating in very difficult situations?

{audio:0:28:19} If you mean difficult situation as a crisis situation, first of all, you need to look at various different crisis situations. You could be the CEO of a manufacturing company and unfortunately, there’s an accident in your plant. You have a fire breaking out. You can get in front of the camera or get in front of the media and start explaining what’s actually happened, so everybody can see it. Then there is crisis around data security. Something that I recommend to leaders today is to really understand data and technology because the very likely crisis you will experience in your career is a data breach. Somebody hacks the system, steals information and uses this against you and the company to maybe collect some ransom or leaks it to the media. It could be very unfortunate. There’s the current pandemic situation. Honestly, I think there are a lot of companies that never really prepared for a pandemic that will go on that long, as we see it right now. A lot of crisis handbooks are written for the fire that I just mentioned. There is a political crisis. There is a crisis in confidence. If the financial situation of a company is getting difficult, the question is: Is this the right leadership to run this company? Or your organization, depending on what you’re talking about. Be mindful of there’s a whole range of crises you need to potentially work through. The key ingredients to all of this is, a crisis is not the time to spin the story and make it something else. You’ve got to be honest and you’ve got to be talking about the facts. Say it the way it is and show compassion and empathy. For your customers, for the affected employees. For your shareholders. For the media. For everybody who is interested in this story. Often, in times of crisis, it’s everybody who’s interested in it. The spotlight is on you. That’s the moment of truth for you as a leader.

{audio:0:30:52} Being honest, dealing with the facts, don’t speculate. Talk about what you know and be hones to say, here’s an area where we have to wait for answers, to establish the facts. Specifically, as I mentioned when it comes to data security. The forensic part of finding out what actually happened. Who hacked the system? What did the hacker actually obtain? How did he/she get into the system? What was lost? Why was it actually accessible? These things take time. The worse mistake you can make is to basically start telling the story for which you don’t know the facts. There is the unfortunate moment when it comes to the date breach, where you have to admit that you don’t know certain things. For many leaders, to say I don’t know is difficult. We like to be in charge. We like to be in control. A crisis is about instilling confidence that you are able to manage through this crisis. It’s also not the time when you have to think about your career. You have to be there to do your job. What will happen to you as a result of this crisis is completely secondary. I think if you become self-conscious about, what does this crisis means for my career? That is a bad place to go. Do that later on. Think about that later. The crisis is a time for you to step up and show to people that you’re as much as possible in charge of the situation. That you initiated a crisis process, that you have others here that you’re working with, that you make it your top priority. That everything else comes second. That you basically are honest. Honest with the situation, not matter what it is.

{audio:0:32:58} You mentioned this idea of a typical crisis handbook. That being written for the archetypical fire situation. Could you take us through what a typical handbook might involve? You’ve given us a sense of what a broader, more holistic perspective would look like, but what are most people dealing with on a practical level?

{audio:0:33:22} I look at the crisis communications aspect of it. Every company has an operational crisis handbook and a crisis mechanism. The fire in the factory, there’s a whole operational plan behind it. That’s not what I’m referring to, because I look at my profession as the communication that needs to go along. It’s either a chapter in that operational crisis handbook, or it’s a separate one. It doesn’t really matter. When it comes to the crisis one. It works similar to what on the operational side you have to do. It’s first establishing the facts. You initiate the process; you make sure that everybody understands their role and their responsibility. You establish the facts. You make sure that you start using templates, which are usually part of a crisis communications books. You try to think through all the different types of crisis that your company could go through. You start drafting templates, so that in a time of crisis, you can look at the template and fill in the blanks, basically, so that you don’t have to scramble around in a moment of crisis when seconds and minutes matter. Instead of having an empty page, you have a starting point. A template where you basically fill out the details that you gather. You can start to get the first message out. Be it to the crisis team. Be it to your employees. Be it to the public. Contact the media. You want to quickly be able to respond and tell the world what actually is occurring.

{audio:0:35:03} That usually is all contained in the crisis communications handbook. It spells out the roles and responsibilities. If I’m usually head of social media, but for whatever reason in a time of crisis, my media colleagues cannot respond. I might have to switch roles and take on the responsibility of somebody else in the department. That’s why assigning roles in a crisis situation is very key. Then you go through the process as outlined. The crisis communications book is there to give to triggers and reminders of what you need to do in what sequence. Key to these crisis communications books are exercising. It’s not just putting the words onto paper and put it on your shelf. Exercise the crisis regularly. If you do that, you feel a lot more comfortable responding to it and reacting to it. You might be even able to internalize through your exercises and your reversals what you need to do. You don’t even need to rely on the book. Just as a way of reference. Good leaders really take some time to prepare. That also means prepare for a crisis. The more realistic these exercises can be, the better. I just recently did one where we had to at the last moment move the location for a press conference in a very short timeframe. From one location to the other with a crowd of people simulating some really aggravated journalists, which are a key target group for you in any type of organization.

{audio:0:36:52} You do want to be on the good side and treat them well. Part of the exercise where it’s a really agitated journalist that didn’t know where to go and didn’t understand why the location was moved. [They] were basically saying, “you’re making our lives miserable” and so forth. The couple colleagues and I who were in that exercise, we had to respond with calm and confidence and not to get agitated by some people throwing not so nice words at each other. If you experience that situation, you will remember next time. That rehearsal part is extremely important. The more often you do it, the better. As I said in the beginning, there are so many different crises that you are exposed to. The real fun is the crisis within crisis. A crisis never comes alone. When I do crisis communication exercises, I like to escalate it.

The last one that I did, there was a data breach, so basically people had to sit down and craft messages around what actually occurred. We were hacked. This is information that got stolen.

{audio:0:38:00} Then while they’re working on this, I gave them another exercises where basically a journalist has gotten information where it’s first unclear of where that information is coming from. Did it come from that leak or from another source? It has a completely different context. The crisis within the crisis, how many times has that happened? Do you deal with a certain situation and then something else is emerging during a crisis and you have to actually deal with a second one that might be related but might not? To experience that stress level for you and how you deal with that, that’s another really valuable lesson to take away from these crisis communication exercises. Can I be focused on this one? Then there’s a switch in the situation. Maybe another crisis. How good am I as a leader to adjust to the new situation and keep my eye on the ball over here, while still dealing over there in a very condensed timeframe? [These are] very valuable exercises to do.

{audio:0:39:17} How do I build trust as a leader in a crisis situation?

{audio:0:38:28} By what I said, to be honest with what is actually occurring. Spelling it out to people. Giving the reasons. What occurred? What happened? What will be done about it? What is our company’s or organizational response to this? Having mentioned data breaches and the likelihood that you will have to encounter this as a leader as some point. It’s very important also to tell your customers or whoever is being affected by it. It could also be your employees. How many times has internal data been stolen, but actually private data to your employees? Can you give reassurance to your employees, to your customers, to whoever is affected by a data breach by telling them what to do? Change your passwords, look at where else you’re going to use that password. Maybe change your email. Whatever instructions you can give to people to respond to a crisis situation. That builds trust in you as a leader that’s actually dealing effectively with the situation. I think what builds trust is if you’re visible. If you don’t hide. If you reiterate and get in front of the camera or in front of the audiences more often. Not only just to reiterate. I think being accessible, visible, trustworthy, honest, telling the truth. These are all really simple and effective crisis management.

{audio:0:41:05} Brilliant. Torsten, I think that’s majority of our agenda covered for today. Is there anything you would like to add as perhaps some concluding remarks on the subject of communication?

{audio:0:41:16} The summary of it all is if you want to be an effective manager, you should really start developing your communication skills because it’s the main task that you will have. It’s not reading the financials; it’s not making the big deal with a customer and bringing in big revenues. Yes, all of these things matter, but you really take a step back and look at effective leadership. It’s communication. It’s a lifelong learning process. That’s never finished. You can always get better at it. You need to take it seriously. You need to dedicate the time to it. If you do, I think you can be incredibly powerful. If you show emotions, if you show trust. If you’re honest and show integrity and if you be yourself and to have a good story to tell. I think people will really appreciate it and look up to you. That ultimately is what a lot of people like is to be taken seriously and be valued. People like to follow leaders that actually make sense. If you look at leadership skills, number one leadership skill is communication.

Head of Internal & External Engagement Division, European Central Bank

Leadership Communication Principles: Dealing with Change and Crisis

Why communication is a foundational leadership skill

The importance of a confidant for leaders: having someone who can give you honest feedback

Leadership communication: why it matters to develop self-awareness

The pillars of effective leadership communication: clarity, integrity, authenticity

Tools for leaders to communicate effectively through hierarchies

The power of storytelling in leadership communication

How leaders can build trust through communication in a crisis