My next question is about how this has changed over time. What has driven the growth in podcasting?

First, there's a general need for brands to diversify their media investments to reach their target audience, given the fragmentation in consumption. Podcasts and digital audio play a significant role in media consumption for many key consumer targets.

My next question is about how this has changed over time. What has driven the growth in podcasting?

Second, the unique environment that podcasting provides is a factor. I refer to it as a version of creator influencer marketing. What brands are really buying, or at least what we were largely buying, are host-read ads that create a high degree of affinity and authenticity. You're essentially leveraging the relationship that the host has with their audience. We've found that it can be an extremely effective advertising channel.

What types of infrastructure would you need to see being built for you to be able to invest adequately in programmatic?

There are two main factors. The first is the consistency of the back-end platforms that publishers use to connect with the Demand-Side Platforms (DSPs). We were primarily using Trade Desk for transactions. The second factor is how publishers think about yield monetization. Having all the connections in place is one thing, but if publishers aren't dedicating enough inventory to programmatic transactions, it becomes irrelevant. If they are still primarily selling directly and moving 90% of their inventory that way, the remaining 10% allocated to programmatic transactions may not be the most efficient way to transact.