Yes, very interesting. Just to understand, you mentioned we're moving towards using a purified form of propane as a refrigerant. That's like a commodity, an unpatented product. Are the products they're selling today patented, or what makes that not a commodity business as it is today?

Maybe it's because there are only two major manufacturers in the refrigerant business with patents. The companies are DuPont, which spun off a company called Chemours due to pollution issues around their plants in the U.S. The other manufacturer with patents is Honeywell. At TEGA, we were always patent protected by Honeywell and Chemours. We learned later that, for example, TEGA served the southern part of Germany with patented products, while a competitor, Westfalen, served the product supply in the northern part of Germany.

Yes, very interesting. Just to understand, you mentioned we're moving towards using a purified form of propane as a refrigerant. That's like a commodity, an unpatented product. Are the products they're selling today patented, or what makes that not a commodity business as it is today?

No one else could get Chemours or Honeywell products except TEGA and Westfalen. It was a profitable business because smaller traders and customers had to purchase from us. For example, heat pump OEMs had no choice but to buy from TEGA or risk. We had some protection, but things changed a few years later. Chemours and even Honeywell started direct business with smaller OEMs and producers, which affected us. However, the HFO patents are still with Chemours and Honeywell, and they remain their cash cows. They will do everything to protect HFOs in Europe and worldwide, counteracting any legislation that tries to ban these fluorine molecules. HFOs are their only future technology because larger fluorine molecules are not in gas form.