Why?

The benefit of some of the more standard pay-as-you-go options is there is weekly capping and various things on there as well. Plus, people know their existing journeys and can use journey planners to get their prices. From some recent data we had, stations that moved into Oval have reached about a 20% adoption rate of CPAY. That is still slightly lower than the overall percentage of our journeys, but it is growing across those stations. However, contactless is not good for families or people with railcards. There is no attachment of railcards to contactless at this point. That is where the account-based ticketing stuff comes into play, because inherently you can then start to attach railcards and discounts through card linking and everything else. For families, if you are traveling with four people, kids don't have contactless cards. A CPAY journey is just for one individual. There are always going to be those barriers at this point to contactless becoming the main fulfillment method.

The addressable journeys that could be contactless, is that 250 million?

It will depend by station, but it is probably between 30% to 50% where CPAY is available. If you take Gatwick, it also depends by time of day. There is a high proportion of peak journeys that happen on contactless because there are not any other cheaper options available for those journeys, whereas off-peak and super off-peak, that is when you can start to see advanced fares come through. You get a high proportion of people using contactless for peak journeys.

If pay-as-you-go or CPAY is roughly 50% of your journeys, how do the rest of the people buy tickets?

The easiest way to look at it is it is one-third CPAY, one-third third-party retailers such as Trainline, Uber, and everyone who has a third-party retailer license in the UK. That is a huge portion of our tickets going to third-party retailers. Unsurprisingly, Trainline has dominated the market for a pretty long time. Ultimately, I have a very relaxed position when it comes to Trainline. I think they are a big asset to the industry. A lot of rail companies have a very negative view towards Trainline because there is this strange mechanic where people say it is our customers versus their customers, which makes no sense to me because they are still going on our trains and going through our front line. They are the same customer, they are just buying a ticket from a different channel. If you buy a ticket for a flight with British Airways through Skyscanner or any airline retailing platform, they are still a BA customer. They still get their Avios miles and they still get on the BA flight and go somewhere. This dichotomy is very strange. We have a fairly good relationship with Trainline to be fair.